Lacemakers of Lincoln

[DaveHam9]

Is there a connection between lacemakers and Lincoln? When and where did the original ones come from?

I've been gooooogling but not having much luck so far.

 

[p.risboy]

Bucks lace is the best.:2fun:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucks_point_lace

Note from the East midlands etc.

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Steve.

Perhaps it's an urban myth -err, I mean family lore. I was informed today one branch of my family came from Italy not France and they were lacemakers and they ended up in Lincoln in 1780s. I think perhaps the Italy bit is wrong and the Lincoln bit as well.

I believe the family were from Devon. The question that I need an answer for then is this: What is the origin of the name ANGEL? How far back does it go in Devon or England in general and where did it originate?

Ok, I'm on the wrong board now. :2fun:

 

[p.risboy]

Try here Dave. Maybe an email or two might help.

http://www.laceguild.demon.co.uk/

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Steve.

I have nothing yet that connects my ANGEL family in Devon to lace or Lincoln.

I have found this on the origin of the name - HERE

 

[duckweed]

I understood that Lace was introduced by Catherine of Aragon to England. Lincoln was a major cloth producing town. Not sure of any connection with lace making.

 

[Rune Mussett-Sharp]

If you can give me a better idea of what kind of "lace making" you have in mind I will try to research it for you. Bobbin lace is a hand work, tatting something else again and then there is knitted lace and woven lace. I am guessing you mean bobbin lace. It has to have been mechanized at some point. I'll see what I can find out.
Rune

 

[Rune Mussett-Sharp]

Short timeline,
First lacemaking believed to have been brought to Devon early 1500's by protestants fleeing Spain. Devon for the next hundred years was the center of South Devon Lace (aka Bone lace). Lace making in the UK was given a second shot in the arm during the French revolution by French refugees this time. At this time lacemaking started to become well established in the Midlands. It was a thriving cottage industry until the Heathcotes of Tiverton succeeded in making a net weaving machine that was steamrun. With modification to this lace could be produced. However Honiton remained the most famous place for handmade lace, enough so that Queen Victoria ordered the lace for her wedding dress and veil as well as the royal christening gown (still used today) from Honiton.
Nottingham is regularly mentioned in the sites I was able to find in this short time. But this was not surprizing as it was a textile area. The interesting thing about lace is that for so many years weaving in Europe, at least the weaving anyone gave credit to, was only done by men. Lace on the other hand seems to have been done by only women, the art passed down mother to daughter so to speak. No patterns we actually published until the 1600's.
Anyway I found no mention of Lincoln I am afraid but as my knowledge of English geography is in it's infancy...
Anyway hope this helps a bit.
Rune

 

[leefer]

Hi Dave....lacemaking was fairly common in all cities at one point.

A note to remember is that Lincoln is in Lincolnshire and many places in Lincolnshire would have had connectons to lacemaking......not just the County capital that is Lincoln.

The Devon connection could incorporate Honiton in Devon that was one of the biggest Lacemaking places in Europe...let alone England.

http://www.east-devon-guide.com/honiton-lace.html

All the best..Lee

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks all.

I don't have anything at all that connects my ANGEL family to lace or to Lincoln/Lincolnshire. This started from a comment by an aunt yesterday that one version of the family history had the ANGEL family being Jewish and ANGELO from Italy and that they had connections to lace and Lincolnshire.

 

[duckweed]

Its true that there does seem to have been a lot of outworking re lacemaking in some surprising places. I have an ancestor who was a laceman. What that entailed was him given out the materials and then picking up the finished lace. He lived in Leeds which is not exactly renowned for lacemaking so maybe your relative did something similar in Lincoln?

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks DW.

It is going to be very difficult proving this new piece of family history because this is all I have at the moment:

Thomas ANGEL b. abt 1785 Ashburton, Devon - parents unknown - died 8 Jul 1848 Paisley, Renfrew - buried in Paisley:

Paisley Abbey Churchyard S2:425
Thos. Angel & Steven Gifford & their wives & chn.

Enlisted in Somerset 24th april 1803
Discharged 24th June 1821
5ft 5 3/4 ,brown hair,grey eyes..dark complexion. A labourer by trade.

Indexed discharge papers for Thomas Angel, served 1803-1821 in the 40th and the 4th Royal Veteran, was 36 when discharged in 1821, and was born Ashburton, Devonshire.

 

[DaveHam9]

This is a miniature of a grand-daughter of Thomas ANGEL. Mary died in 1955. The locket details can't be seen in this photo but it is engraved with the word 'MIZPAH' diagonally across it. The locket has been handed down one branch of the family and with the story re Jewish origins in Italy and family name ANGELO. It's said the 'evidence' is Mary's hair with its natural curls and the word 'MIZPAH' on the locket.

My research on Mizpah jewellery indicates it was a Victorian thing that soldiers etc carried and is not proof of the carrier's actual denomination.

 

[duckweed]

MIZPAH not just Victorian. My grandmother had a heart shaped brooch given to her by her husband when he went away to the First World War and neither of them were Jewish.

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks DW. Yes, I have found some references to WWI too after further searching.

The brooch will be checked for a hallmark and I should be getting a close up photo of it.

Not just the hair but it seems some of the family have a nose that might indicate some Jewish connection. There might be one but so far I have not found where it would fit into my tree.

 

[duckweed]

Big noses run in lots of families.

Seriously Angel as a surname seems to be a very Devon and Dorset thing and there doesn't seem to be the usual Jewish first names that would indicate Jewish extraction. Nor does there seem to be any Catholic connections that you would expect from an Italian connection.

Also there was I believe a fashion for curls in that era. Lord Byron had curly hair I think. So if the family is basing racial origin on curly hair there needs to be other members of the family who have inherited that trait.

Interestingly doing my husbands family tree I can see just which branch of the family brought in male baldness just by looking at the photographs.

The men and sometimes the women in our family have enormous noses and I have never found any Jewish or foreign blood in our tree. I've seen some pretty big noses in France Italy and Spain.

 

[p.risboy]

I agree DW. My Gramps had a nose that you could ski on.:2fun:

And his origins were from Scotland(but yet to be proved).

 

[Rune Mussett-Sharp]

We don't have the noses but curls run on both sides of my family. And I mean curls not lovely waves. My poor son seems to have inherited the double dose of curls from me and my daughter the dead straight hair from DH.
On the lacemaking Dave you may have started a craze here. I told my weaving teacher yesterday what I found and now she and I are deep into where do we find more information. When the rest of my class get the details... Thanks for a new addiction.
I looked up Mizpah. Great stuff. Basically comes from Genesis and when anglophoned (Is that really a word? I found it on a site.) came to be used as a quick way to mark a bond between the giver and the receiver. Makes sense that it was carried by soldiers and put on lockets like yours.
As for Angel have you considered Angel as in Spanish? If Devon lacemakers really did originate in Spain...?
Cheers!
Rune

 

[duckweed]

There are a lot of thomas Angels around the Ashburton area aren't there? I notice one Thomas Angel Junior was fined. and another runs a pub.


Devon Record Office 6459M-0/Z/1 1817

Contents: Affidavit, by Thomas Angel of Buckfastleigh, innkeeper, relating to a fire which burnt down houses in Buckfastleigh in July 1816.
Court of Common Pleas - Richard Churchward, plaintiff vs. men of Stanborough Hundred defendants

 

[DaveHam9]

I agree DW. The curls seem to be confined to Mary Ann. The large hooked nose appears in several descendants but I agree it's not proof.

Yes, several Thomas and Samuel (family lore says Thomas had an older brother Samuel) in the Asburton, Buckfastleigh area.

I have two possibilities for parents but nothing strong enough to actually put them in the tree. Also depends if you try to include brother Samuel or not.

Regards,

Dave