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LEES & NEEDHAM

DaveHam9

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#1
??

Banns: St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England
John Lees - this Parish
Mary Needham - this Parish
Banns Read: 28 Aug 1803, 2nd: 4 Sep 1803, 3rd: 11 Sep 1803
Register: Banns 1803-1804, Entry 4
Source: LDS Family Search

Marriage: 29 Nov 1802 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England
John Lees - (X), Spinner, Oldham of this Parish
Mary Needham - (X), Spinster, Oldham of this Parish
Witness: Jonathan Jackson; Thomas Whitehead
Married by Banns by: Thos. Fawcett
Register: Marriages 1802-1812, Page 30, Entry 117
Source: LDS Film 1656117 and 1656118

Marriage: 13 Sep 1803 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England
John Lees - Weaver, Hollins of this Parish
Mary Needham - (X), Spinster, Hollins of this Parish
Witness: Jonathan Jackson; Adam Jackson
Married by Banns by: Thos. Fawcett
Register: Marriages 1802 - 1812, Page 82, Entry 325
Source: LDS Film 1656117 and 1656118


Baptism: 14 Feb 1813 St Mary, Oldham, Lancashire, England
Samuel Lees - Son of John Lees & Mary
Abode: Lower Moor
Occupation: Weaver
Baptised by: T. Fawcett
Register: Baptisms 1813-1822, Page 5, Entry 37
Source: LDS Film 1656162
 

emeltee

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#3
There are at least three couples called John and Mary Lees having children in Oldham around the same time. Have you noted in the two marriages in Post#1 that one groom is a Spinner by trade and the other is a Weaver. Who is your link to this couple so we can try and work out which John and Mary it is?
 

DaveHam9

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#4
Thanks emeltee.

Occupation for John Lees in the 1841 census I posted?

This is the connection to my tree.

Marriages Dec Qtr 1838 Manchester 20 599
LEES Samuel & WHITEHEAD Caroline

Marriage: 4 Nov 1838 St Mary the Virgin, Prestwich, Lancashire, England
Samuel Lees - (X), full age, Waste dealer, Bachelor, Bottom o'th' Moor Oldham
Caroline Whitehead - (X), full age, Spinster, Bottom o'th' Moor Oldham
Groom's Father: John Lees, Weaver
Bride's Father: Thomas Whitehead, Hatter
Witness: Thomas Greenwood, (X); James Sheldrick
Married by Banns by: G. B. Sandford Curate
Register: Marriages 1838-1839, Page 87, Entry 174
Source: LDS Film 2356187
 
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emeltee

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#5
The John Lees you have in the 1941 Census is a Weaver as per the info given at Samuel's marriage. The correct John Lees/Mary Needham marriage is therefore the one which took place in 1803, which also gives John's occuation as Weaver.
 

DaveHam9

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#8
Something is not right.

Samuel Lees
Immigration 14 Jul 1840 NSW
Residence Place Halton, Lancashire, England
Birth Year (Estimated) 1813
Father John Lees
Mother Mary Cliff
Spouse Caroline Lees
Spouse's Residence Place Halton, Lancashire, England
Spouse's Father Thomas Whitehead
Spouse's Mother Elizabeth Evans
Ship 'Formosa'
Volume 30
 

DaveHam9

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#9
?
Baptism: 6 Apr 1817 St Lawrence, Denton, Lancashire, England
Peggy Whitehead - [Child] of Thomas Whitehead & Lydia
Born: 11 Jan 1817
Abode: Haughton
Occupation: Hatter
Baptised by: W. P. Greswell
Register: Baptisms 1813 - 1829, Page 60, Entry 480
Source: LDS Film 559166
 

emeltee

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#10
The only baptism I can find for a Ruth Lees is the daughter of John and Mariah Lees who was baptised 1810. John and Mariah Wright married 27 August 1810. Obviously not your John and Mary as they did not have a son called Samuel that I can find.

I cannot find a John Lees/Mary Cliff marriage either.
 

DaveHam9

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#11
Thanks emeltee.

So there are 2x Mary Needham and this one and that 1851 census do not fit my tree ?

LEES, SAMUEL - NEEDHAM
GRO Reference: 1840 S Quarter in ASHTON AND OLDHAM Volume 20 Page 159

Samuel 1 in 1841 in post #2 so is that ruled out too?
 
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emeltee

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#12
Have a look on lancs opc. There are a lot of John and Mary Lees having children in Oldham around the same time and they are just the ones recorded on the site. I cannot find any daughters born to John and Mary, a weaver of Lowermoor, Oldham.
The baptisms I can find are

James 6 March 1803 Parents John and Mary Occupation Weaver Abode Lowermoor (This is between the two marriages)
Abraham 7 April 1805 same details
Edmund 8 May 1808 same details
Nelson 7 February 1811 same details
Samuel 14 February 1813 same details.

There are only the two John Lees Mary Needham marriages as per Post #1. Just noticed that the marriage in 1802 where John's occupation is a Spinner has a witness called Thomas Whitehead.
 

DaveHam9

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#13
Thanks emeltee.

So it looks to be the 1802 marriage even though occ is spinner and witness Thomas Whitehead.

Mother as Mary Cliff is an error then on shipping record but that's unusual. I'll check there are not 2x Samuel arrivals.

The 1841 census looks ok with Samuel aged 1. The 1851 may not be correct even though there is a Samuel aged 11.
 

DaveHam9

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#14
A Samuel Lee arrived 1841 from Dublin.

Another Samuel Lees arrived Victoria from Lancs but he was born 1809.

The several shipping records have mother as Mary Cliff.

Samuel age 27 on 14 Feb 1840.

Thomas Whitehead was a hatter. One record has Elizabeth Evans and another Mary Evans.
 

emeltee

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#16
I think this coild be Thomas Whitehead and family in 1841

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MQGJ-CS3

and in 1851

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGNC-3Z8

I'm not sure who did the transcription but both fs and fmp have Risbury Brecknockshire down as daughter Elizabeth's pob. Looking at the image of the original it says Newbury Berkshire. Wife Elizabeth says North Wales Wrexham. Daughter Elizabeth baptised 31 January 1813 in Newbury to Thomas, a Hatter, and Elizabeth. The only Caroline I can find was baptised 2 February 1818 in Birmingham parents Thomas and Elizabeth but no occupstion to confirm he was a hatter.

1861

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGNC-3Z8

Daughter Elizabeth, head of Household is noted as Unmarried on the original.

I haven't been able, so far, to pinpoint deaths for Thomas or Elizabeth, nor can I find a marriage for them.
 
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DaveHam9

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#18
1841
HO107 Piece/Book 546/5 Folio 38 Page 71
Civil Parish: Oldham
Hundred: Salford
County: Lancashire
Registration District: Ashton & Oldham
Sub-RD: Oldham Above Town
ED: 7
Address: Side of the Moor
John Lees 52 Weaver Y
Mary Lees 49 Y
Sarah 29 Y
Mary 25 Y
Samuel 1 Y

The 1841 looks ok for my tree.

May not be the same family with Maria instead of Mary ??

1851
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGL9-NPT

Deaths Dec Qtr 1864 LEES Maria [75] Oldham 8d 406
 
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