LILLEY family

[DaveHam9]

Re: the BONE family

Hello,

While we ponder the parents of Edward T who married in 1904 there is the LILLEY family to work on.

Births Sep 1880
Lilley Minnie Theresa Marylebone 1a 640

1881
RG11 Piece / Folio 0163 / 12 Page 17
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Dwelling 2 Woronzow Terr
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
William LILLEY Head M Male 26 Marylebone, Middlesex, England Painter
Emmeline LILLEY Wife M Female 24 Troston, Suffolk, England
Minnie LILLEY Daur Female 8 m Marylebone, Middlesex, England

Does this fit? Or have I got the wrong Emmeline? The 1881 census date 3 April so they are married and have an 8 month year old daughter by that date. ???

Births Dec 1856
Whent Emmeline Sudbury 4a 350

Marriages Jun 1881
Lilly William Walter Barnet 3a 275
Whent Emmeline Barnet 3a 275



Minnie's mother remarries: EDIT That throws more than a spanner in the works. Emmeline is 32 and a spinster. ???

Marriages Mar 1891
Epprett Charles Frederick Kensington 1a 149
Lilley Emmeline Kensington 1a 149

Deaths Jun 1932
Epprett Emmeline 75 Camberwell 1d 688

Regards,

Dave

 

[josie7644]

Re: the BONE family

Hi Dave,

I've been searching for early records of Emmeline to establish whether her father was called William and whether he was a farmer.

Found her in 1871,(transcribed as Wheele on A*) in Sudbury with her widowed mother, Ruth and her brother, John, but can't find her in 1861.

I'll have another look tomorrow!

Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

Re: the BONE family

Hello Josie,

Thanks for looking.

I would have thought Bury St E for Troston not Sudbury. Given the date of the marriage and the date of the 1881 census and the age of their daughter I'm not sure it is WHENT. I've checked the others REEVE, MOYSE, PIERSON & STEGGALL and can't find a marriage to a LILLY/LILLEY.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

I've made no further progress with this one. The date of the marriage is after the birth of Minnie Theresa. It's also William Walter in the marriage. The one in 1881 is a painter. The 1904 marriage says William is a clerk. I think it's the right family in 1881 but not the right marriage.

I've looked for Emma and Emily as well as Emmeline /Emmaline.

Can William Walter LILLY be found unmarried in 1881? I'll look now. NO.

Regards,

Dave

 

[josie7644]

Hi Dave,

I was hoping that the baptismal record for Minnie Theresa might provide Emmeline’s maiden name, but sadly, it doesn’t!

Anyway, here are the details:-

Place: Hampstead, St Stephen the Martyr
Date of Baptism: 3 July 1881
Date of Birth: 12 August 1880
Parents: William and Emmeline
Address: 8 Hensbridge Place ?

I’ll have another rummage...

:biggrin: Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

Thank you very much. Ah. Notice the baptism date. Did they wait until after the marriage? Assuming then it is WHENT.

Please see if you can find Minnie in 1891 and 1901. It might have LILLY or a different pob for parents. I can't find a William LILLEY/LILLY born about 1855 in Marylebone. Closest is this one:

Births Jun 1854
LILLY William Walter Strand 1b 400

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

Returning to the witness Emmeline EPPRETT. The 1891 marriage has Emmeline as a spinster age 32 with father William LILLEY a farmer. I can't see a birth that fits as LILLY / LILLEY anywhere in England unless you include Emily.

Now, I took that to be a remarriage of Emmeline the mother of Minnie but if I'm way off then how does this other Emmeline fit in? Minnie's aunt?

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

I wonder if this is the one:

1881
RG11 Piece / Folio 1828 / 5 Page 3
Census Place Sudbury St Gregory, Suffolk, England
Dwelling 49 Friars St
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Ann LILLIE Head W Female 61 Halstead, Essex, England Annuitant
Emily A. LILLIE Daur U Female 26 Sudbury, Suffolk, England Schoolmistress
Andrew KEMP Visitor U Male 21 Brockley, Suffolk, England Grocers Assistant
William STEAD Lodger U Male 28 Macclesfield, Cheshire, England Inland Revenue Officer

But the 1891 marriage does not have father William as deceased. Rule it out I think:

Marriages Dec 1851
COOPER Ann Halstead 12 202
Davey Lavinia Halstead 12 202
FROST Susannah Halstead 12 202
Lillie William Halstead 12 202
PORTER William Halstead 12 202
Rayner William Halstead 12 202
Ryley William Halstead 12 202
Wheeler Sarah Ann Halstead 12 202

 

[josie7644]

No luck as yet with Whent in 1861 or Lilley in 1891 (with variants of course).

Back in a little while....

Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

Ok, thanks.

 

[josie7644]

Hello Josie,

Returning to the witness Emmeline EPPRETT. The 1891 marriage has Emmeline as a spinster age 32 with father William LILLEY a farmer. I can't see a birth that fits as LILLY / LILLEY anywhere in England unless you include Emily.



Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,

I'm a bit confused, here! Where did you find a witness called Emmeline Epprett?

Just looking at the 1891 Lilley/Epprett marriage and the witnesses are George Bruce Moore and Emma Chapman.

Am I losing the plot? :2fun:

Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie.

Possibly. :2fun: I'm wondering why I started the BONE / LILLEY search.

But Miriam Alethea BONE married a HUGGARD and that takes me by marriage to a HAMILTON, a daughter of my ggg grandfather.

The witnesses to Edward T's marriage in 1904 are his cousin Austin Collyer (son of Edward Collyer) and Emmeline EPPRETT. Possibly Minnie T's aunt. ???

Regards,

Dave

 

[josie7644]

Hello Dave,

Quote:

1881
RG11 Piece / Folio 1828 / 5 Page 3
Census Place Sudbury St Gregory, Suffolk, England
Dwelling 49 Friars St
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Ann LILLIE Head W Female 61 Halstead, Essex, England Annuitant
Emily A. LILLIE Daur U Female 26 Sudbury, Suffolk, England Schoolmistress
Andrew KEMP Visitor U Male 21 Brockley, Suffolk, England Grocers Assistant
William STEAD Lodger U Male 28 Macclesfield, Cheshire, England Inland Revenue Officer

Here is the same Lillie family in 1871.

Address: 1 Straw Lane, Sudbury

Ann Widow 37, Cottage property and lodgers
Ellen P 29
Emily A 16
Charles M 12
Plus boarder, servant and lodger

Need to find them in 1861 to see if Emily A's father is William, a farmer!

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

Thanks. So age 61 in 1881 is way off for Ann.

One possible problem. William is not listed as deceased on 1891 marriage.

I would suggest trying to find Emmeline EPPRETT in 1901 to get age and pob.

If she is a sister of William the painter (he was born in Marylebone) so possibly we have a different one born Sudbury. ??? It can't be coincidence that we have 2 x LILLEY. I think as a witness she is related somehow on the bride's side - Austin a cousin on the groom's side.

Regards,

Dave

 

[josie7644]

Hi Dave,

Finally found the Lillie family in 1861, in Sudbury!

William aged 57, is not a farmer but a banker's clerk, so it looks as though it's back to the drawing board!

:2fun: Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

Thanks for looking. Ok, blame me for that LILLIE diversion. :2fun:

Back to Emmeline EPPRETT - 1901 to get pob.


Deaths Jun 1932
Epprett Emmeline 75 Camberwell 1d 688

 

[josie7644]

Hello Josie,

Thanks. So age 61 in 1881 is way off for Ann.

Regards,

Dave

Sorry Dave! I'm definitely losing it! :2fun:

Age 61 is spot on for 1881, as she was 51 in 1871.

How the heck did I come up with age 37?

I think I need a break!

Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

Ok, 61 is spot on and 37 is way off.

I think we can forget that Sudbury family.

 

[josie7644]

Wow! Wow! :2fun: :2fun:

In 1901, Emily Epprett, 44 and Minnie T Lilley, 20 are in the same household with Cornelius Meager aged 29!

I'll have a look at the original! Yippee!

 

[DaveHam9]

Ok, mother and daughter. > Yes? Born Troston.