LILLEY family

[josie7644]

Address:147 Gray's Inn Road, St Pancras

Emily Epprett widow aged 44 Housekeeper, born Bury St Edmonds
Minnie T Lilley daughter aged 20, born St John's Wood
Cornelius is the lodger!

So, I think we can safely say that we are back to searching for Emmeline or Emily Whent.

Doesn't it feel great when you have a breakthrough? All that futile searching was worth it in the end!

:2fun: :2fun: Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

Thanks. Yes it's great to have moments like that.

Marriage in 1904 at St Jude Gray's Inn Rd.

Why did I think it was her mother's remarriage in the first place? Not sure.

But she certainly told a few fibs when she remarried in 1891.

It's not Bury St E to fit Troston:

Births Dec 1856
Whent Emmeline Sudbury 4a 350

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

I've been searching for early records of Emmeline to establish whether her father was called William and whether he was a farmer.

Found her in 1871,(transcribed as Wheele on A*) in Sudbury with her widowed mother, Ruth and her brother, John, but can't find her in 1861.

If this is the marriage then we don't have the details from it so we don't know Emmeline WHENT's father or occupation:


Marriages Jun 1881
Lilly William Walter Barnet 3a 275
Whent Emmeline Barnet 3a 275


Births Jun 1854
LILLY William Walter Strand 1b 400


So did William Walter die before 1891 or is that why Emmeline called herself a spinster and born a LILLEY? Too many William.

Deaths Mar 1892
Epprett Charles 32 Marylebone 1a 549

 

[josie7644]

Hello Josie,




If this is the marriage then we don't have the details from it so we don't know Emmeline WHENT's father or occupation:


Marriages Jun 1881
Lilly William Walter Barnet 3a 275
Whent Emmeline Barnet 3a 275


Births Jun 1854
LILLY William Walter Strand 1b 400


So did William Walter die before 1891 or is that why Emmeline called herself a spinster and born a LILLEY? Too many William.

Deaths Mar 1892
Epprett Charles 32 Marylebone 1a 549

Hi Dave,

I can't find any salient details for the Whent/Lilly marriage! The info regarding her father William being a farmer was taken from her second marriage.

It's possible that when Emmeline married for the second time. she was not asked for her status. The registrar/vicar may have assumed that she was a spinster!

Sorry, I have to go now!

All the best,

Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

OK thanks Josie.

If the info in 1891 re her father is correct then we are looking for a LILLEY / LILLEY marriage.


Very few WHENT baptisms in Suffolk on FS site. Only this one:

name: Esther Whent
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 01 Oct 1855
baptism/christening place: RAYDON,SUFFOLK,ENGLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Daniel Whent
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Susan
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C06310-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 919628
reference number:


Problem ???

Marriages Jun 1881
ARDLEY William Barnet 3a 275
Lilly William Walter Barnet 3a 275
Whent Emmeline Barnet 3a 275
Young Eliza Barnet 3a 275

Another researcher has matched the couples thus. And a William junior born before the marriage as William YOUNG.

 

[josie7644]

OK thanks Josie.

If the info in 1891 re her father is correct then we are looking for a LILLEY / LILLEY marriage.





Problem ???

Marriages Jun 1881
ARDLEY William Barnet 3a 275
Lilly William Walter Barnet 3a 275
Whent Emmeline Barnet 3a 275
Young Eliza Barnet 3a 275

Another researcher has matched the couples thus. And a William junior born before the marriage as William YOUNG.

Hi Dave,


I think my earlier post regarding the baptism of Minnie Theresa Lilly proves that the other researcher has mismatched the couples. What do you think?

Here's a reminder to save you backtracking!

Hi Dave,

I was hoping that the baptismal record for Minnie Theresa might provide Emmeline’s maiden name, but sadly, it doesn’t!

Anyway, here are the details:-

Place: Hampstead, St Stephen the Martyr
Date of Baptism: 3 July 1881
Date of Birth: 12 August 1880
Parents: William and Emmeline
Address: 8 Hensbridge Place ?

Josie

 

[josie7644]

Hello again Dave,

In 1891, the Eppretts are in St Pancras and Emmeline's birthplace is given as Troston, Suffolk.

Just wish I could find her family in 1861!

Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

You are correct about the baptism record and I'm sure the 1881 census record with Minnie and parents is the right one although the address might be an error:

Dwelling 2 Woronzow Terr

So, yes parents are William and Emmeline BUT is that the right marriage?

Marriages Jun 1881
Lilly William Walter Barnet 3a 275
Whent Emmeline Barnet 3a 275

Registered in the June Q and the census date 3 April. ??? It's possible the marriage was in March or first 3 days of April. Are we forcing this marriage to fit because we have no other?

Emmeline's father might be William a farmer from Suffolk but the bit about her being born a LILLEY is doubtful. It's a name from NE of England mainly, not Suffolk. I can't see any LILLY / LILLEY marriages.

Regards,

Dave

 

[josie7644]

Hi Dave,

Regarding the address in 1881, it is correct!

Just scroll down this page...

http://yourarchives.nationalarchive...ration_District,_1871_Census_Street_Index_U-Z

On FreeBMD, I searched for a marriage of William Lilley and Emmeline – no results.

Then I searched for William Lilly and Emmeline, with no other data added. There was only one hit in 1881!

You ask “Are we forcing this marriage to fit because we have no other?”

No I don’t think we are! I think this is the correct one.

I believe that William and Emmeline were living together for a couple of years before they got married. They are hardly likely to admit to the enumerator that they are not married, especially when there is a tiny baby in the house!

You say “the bit about her being born a LILLEY is doubtful. It's a name from NE of England mainly, not Suffolk.”

I agree with this!

But we have no worries on that score, as she was born a Whent!

As I said in one my earlier posts, it is possible that Emmeline wasn’t asked about her status on her wedding day; the vicar probably assumed she was a spinster.

Oh! Almost forgot! On FreeBMD there is a death registered in Kensington in Q4 1883 of a 28-year-old William Lilley, which fits perfectly with the 26-year-old in 1881.

Best wishes,

Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

Thanks. The address fits St John's Woods the pob given for Minnie in 1911. I agree Minnie's late baptism can be explained by a marriage after her birth.

Yes, it's possible Emmeline simply said her father was 'William a farmer' and the vicar took that to mean William LILLEY.

Birth reg place for Emmeline was Sudbury not Bury St E. That still gets me. And we can't show her father was William a farmer.

I'd like one final piece of the puzzle then. Prove the other researcher wrong by matching the other couple somehow.

Marriages Jun 1881
ARDLEY William Barnet 3a 275
Young Eliza Barnet 3a 275

A possible:

Births Sep 1860
YOUNG Eliza Thetford 4b 356

I think William ARDLEY was claimed to have been born in Chelsea.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

I searched the Gale Collection of English Newspapers - templecombe, collyer bone, edward bone, edward t bone, john bone greenwich, john bone merchant, etc... and found nothing.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

I think it is this one:


name: William E Ardley
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Male
age: 49
relationship to head of household: Head
birthplace: Chelsea
record type: Household
registration district: Kensington
sub-district: Brompton
ecclesiastical parish: St Matthias
civil parish: Kensington
county: London, Middlesex

Regards,

Dave

 

[josie7644]

Hello Josie,

I think it is this one:


name: William E Ardley
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender: Male
age: 49
relationship to head of household: Head
birthplace: Chelsea
record type: Household
registration district: Kensington
sub-district: Brompton
ecclesiastical parish: St Matthias
civil parish: Kensington
county: London, Middlesex

Regards,

Dave

Good morning from me Dave!

Ok!

Address:
115 Earl’s Court Road

William E Ardley 49 Provisions Dealer born Chelsea
Emily M 50 born Stepney
Plus six children all born Kensington and a 23-year-old brother, Frederick H, a tea merchant’s clerk, born Fulham.

Just off to investigate Sudbury, Bures, Troston and Bury St Edmonds!

:2fun: Josie

 

[josie7644]

Hi again,

The Sudbury RD encompasses the civil parishes of Bures and Bures St Mary. In 1871, Emmeline’s birthplace was Bures and Ruth’s was Bures St Mary.

http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/sudbury.html

On the right of the link below is a map showing Bures St Mary.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bures_St._Mary

Here’s a map of Troston, which is five miles NNE of Bury St Edmonds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troston

What do you think? Are they close enough?

Josie

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Josie,

Thanks.

Yes seems so with so few registrations in Bury St E.

While searching I came across a WHENT family in Alpheton.

Does this fit for John as being older?

Births Jun 1853
Whent John Thomas Sudbury 4a 376 ??

Regards,

Dave