London Streets

[ral91]

Sorry, wasn't sure where to post this, but was wondering whether anyone had access or knowledge of early 19th Century streets/places in London; in particular, the East End.

I have an image of Greenwood's map of 1827, but am looking for 'Georges Place'. My concern is that it may have been changed when duplicate street names were eradicated, so would anyone happen to know where 'Georges Place' is?

Ryan

 

[dochines]

Hi Ryan,

I have looked in the book "A to Z of Victorian London" which consist of middle and late 19th century maps and Iam sorry I cannot find a George's Place,

There is a George's yard in Lombard St in the City

and several George's Streets in Baker St, Hanover Square, Camberwell, Mansion House. Richmod and Woolwich

There is a George's rd in Holloway

so nothing much in the East End at all

Do you have any other clues where it is ?


dochines

 

[ral91]

Hi Dochines,

I think it may have been in Bethnal Green as I got this address from a birth certificate (which I don't have to hand) That's all I know really. The parish of St Matthew's is where this person was baptised so around that area I should imagine.

Thanks for your efforts

Ryan

 

[sparklingtechie]

Sorry, wasn't sure where to post this, but was wondering whether anyone had access or knowledge of early 19th Century streets/places in London; in particular, the East End.

I have an image of Greenwood's map of 1827, but am looking for 'Georges Place'. My concern is that it may have been changed when duplicate street names were eradicated, so would anyone happen to know where 'Georges Place' is?

Ryan

That was the Jewish quater....I think...by the docks..but don't take my word on it.

 

[ral91]

That was the Jewish quater....I think...by the docks..but don't take my word on it.

The people in question are very likely of Huguenot descent - would they have lived in close proximity to the Jewish community?

 

[dochines]

Thie area around St Matthews church which is just south of Bethnal Green Road was indeed one of the areas the Hugenots took refuge in. They started a silk weaving industry which was particularly fourishing in the first half of the 19th century. They had their own places of worship as well. The adjacent areas of Spitalfields and Shoreditch were also populated by the Hugenots.

The jewish community did not begin to arrive until the second half of the 19th century and the Hugenots began to integrate into the wider greater london community.

It was always an area willing to receive displaced persons and since the war has increasingly become an Asian community as the Jewish families settled to the north and further east in London

I lived in the area for a few years around 1970. It was a fascinating place to live in. I remember one grand building that had been used as a Hugenot Chapel, then a Synagogue and is now a Mosque

The road in question may well have been little more than a mews or yard off another which is why we cannot find it on the smaller scale maps.

incidentally it is about 3-4 miles from the docks

dochines

 

[dochines]

I have found George Street Bethnal Green on a victorian map. It is running due South from the eastern end of Old Bethnal Green Road. It is now right adjacent to a railway line. I suspect that Georges Place was buried under the railway when it was being built.

If you look in a modern map of that area the road that was George Street is now called Powys street

dochines

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello dochines,

You are probably correct. It seems to have been a small place with only a few houses.

Still, with George Gardens listed as one of the streets in 1851 census I thought it would be possible to find it on a map.

I have three, or possibly four, Huguenot families in my tree.

For example, William MARTIN c. 4 Jun 1824 St Matthew Bethnal Green.
Two daughters married into another Huguenot family, the PERDRIAUs from La Rochelle.

Regards,

Dave

 

[sparklingtechie]

The people in question are very likely of Huguenot descent - would they have lived in close proximity to the Jewish community?

I wouldn't know as I didn't know they would be of Huguenot descent(whatever that is) sorry I was only trying to help I just remember a place called that or like that by the docks.

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
I don't know the area but could it be St Georges Place?

Fire at St. George's-in-the-East 1846 .....

"Shortly before three o'clock on Sunday morning, a fire occurred at the extensive sugar-refining house belonging to Messrs. Grant and Baldwin, 17½, St. George's Place, Back Road, St. George's-in-the-East, the whole of which, together with the valuable stock, in all upwards of £20,000, was entirely consumed. A fire taking place in the night time is always sufficiently alarming, but the consternation created in this instance may be readily imagined from the circumstance of a large building, about eighty feet in height, one hundred feet in length, and forty in breadth, being, within an hour after the above time, one mass of flame, towering several feet above the summit, and threatening destruction to St. George's Church, and the surrounding houses. Though the sugar factory is bounded by the Back Road on the north, Cannon Street [Road] on the west, Ratcliff Highway and St. George's Church on the south and east, yet it stood so far isolated from all as to keep them from injury. There was but little wind, and that being south-westerly, the parochial church was preserved.
The engines were promptly on the spot, and there being an abundance of water, immense streams were continually thrown upon the burning pile: but the flames had got too firm a hold; the contents were of too inflammable a nature to admit of the slightest check, and the flames rushed rapidly from the basement, where the fire commenced, to the seven successive storeys, until the whole mass was completely encircled in one sheet of fire; and about half-past four o'clock the roof fell in with an awful crash, partially smothering the fire, but only for a moment, as it again burst forth with redoubled fury. Subsequently a great part of the east front fell, and the south wall, with the lofty chimney, was expected to fall.
The immense stores are still partially standing, and that to the eastward, where the fire is supposed to have commenced, it is expected, contains a portion of the stock unconsumed; it is also anticipated that a portion in the lower floor may yet be recovered. The fire was not entirely subdued till nine o'clock in the morning, but throughout the day the engines were incessantly playing on the smoking ruins. The building is fully insured."

The Illustrated London News. Feb 28 1846, p.148.

dave

 

[dochines]

St George in the East is a very large parish church still standing in area between Cable St and the Highway ( previously St George Street). This area is currently known as Stepney.
It is quite a way from Bethnal Green though. I did wonder about this area which was known in the 19C as simply St George's in the East.

I was fascinated by the report you found. Tate and Lyle had a big factory on the Isle of dogs, there were several major fires involving sugar in this area but I did not know of this one . Thanks for finding it. I will add it to my research data base of Victorian disasters

dochines

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
this is the web site the article came from
http://home.clara.net/mawer/fatalities.html#gb

dave

 

[ral91]

Hi
I don't know the area but could it be St Georges Place?

Fire at St. George's-in-the-East 1846 .....

"Shortly before three o'clock on Sunday morning, a fire occurred at the extensive sugar-refining house belonging to Messrs. Grant and Baldwin, 17½, St. George's Place, Back Road, St. George's-in-the-East, the whole of which, together with the valuable stock, in all upwards of £20,000, was entirely consumed. A fire taking place in the night time is always sufficiently alarming, but the consternation created in this instance may be readily imagined from the circumstance of a large building, about eighty feet in height, one hundred feet in length, and forty in breadth, being, within an hour after the above time, one mass of flame, towering several feet above the summit, and threatening destruction to St. George's Church, and the surrounding houses. Though the sugar factory is bounded by the Back Road on the north, Cannon Street [Road] on the west, Ratcliff Highway and St. George's Church on the south and east, yet it stood so far isolated from all as to keep them from injury. There was but little wind, and that being south-westerly, the parochial church was preserved.
The engines were promptly on the spot, and there being an abundance of water, immense streams were continually thrown upon the burning pile: but the flames had got too firm a hold; the contents were of too inflammable a nature to admit of the slightest check, and the flames rushed rapidly from the basement, where the fire commenced, to the seven successive storeys, until the whole mass was completely encircled in one sheet of fire; and about half-past four o'clock the roof fell in with an awful crash, partially smothering the fire, but only for a moment, as it again burst forth with redoubled fury. Subsequently a great part of the east front fell, and the south wall, with the lofty chimney, was expected to fall.
The immense stores are still partially standing, and that to the eastward, where the fire is supposed to have commenced, it is expected, contains a portion of the stock unconsumed; it is also anticipated that a portion in the lower floor may yet be recovered. The fire was not entirely subdued till nine o'clock in the morning, but throughout the day the engines were incessantly playing on the smoking ruins. The building is fully insured."

The Illustrated London News. Feb 28 1846, p.148.

dave

Dave, it's very funny you should have found this. The family that this regards seemed to be doing well for themselves as silk weavers until the wife/mother died in 1846 (possibly from this fire? The cause of death is illegible on her death cert) and in the same year the husband/father went into the workhouse and I've no idea what happened to the 6 or 7 children. Perhaps this fire was a catalyst for their misfortune, and they lost their house in it if this is the right St George's. Although, that report was in Feb and she died in December

Dochines, the fact that this street is quite a way from Bethnal Green might not be off-putting, as these people were born and lived in Bethnal Green, but married at St James', Westminster for reasons still unbeknown to me.

Ryan