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Looking for Byron/Holmes

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#1
Hi Looking for some help in sorting out a conundrum concerning Peter Byron and Jane Holmes.. Alfred Byron Holmes was born 1877 in Southwark. On his baptismal record is shows mother as Jane Holmes. Alongside Peter his brother Thomas and sister Sarah was also baptised. Alfred and Thomas's mother was named as Jane Holmes whilst Sarah's mother was named as Jane Byron Holmes (all from the same address) and the name Peter has been crossed out. Peter Byron (supposed father) is also known as Peter Byron Holmes? I am trying to find out Jane's parents. Is Holmes her maiden name or was she married to ? Holmes? I can't find a marriage for Jane to Peter Byron. The family appear to be from the Southwark area. Any help sorting this out would be good. Thanks
 

emeltee

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#2
The GRO site has the following birth ref

Alfred Byron Dec 1877 St Saviour Surrey 1d 64 mmn Holmes

Do you have the family on any of the Censuses? I can't seem to see them, nor can I find a Byron/Holmes marriage.

Emeltee
 

Bootzy

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#5
1881 census

Peter Byron Head 48 b St Saviour – book folder
Jane Byron wife b same 48
Kate Holms step daug 10 b same
Sarah Byron daug 8 b same
Thomas Byron son 6 b same
Alfred Byron son 3 b same
Emma dau 1 b same
50 Crosby Row, St Mary Magdalen, Bermondsey London

Freebmd has Birth March qtr 1871 – HOLMES Kate – Hackney Vol 1b page 509
would be purchasing that certificate to see whats recorded for parents.
regards Val
 

emeltee

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#6
Found them in 1881, as Trace say, 50 Crosby Row.

Peter Byron 48 Book Folder (Binder)
Jane Byron wife 48
Kate Holms step dau 10
Sarah Byron dau 8
Thomas Byron son 6
Alfred Byron son 3
Emma Byron da 1

All born St Saviour Surrey

Can't see a birth ref for a Kate Holms/Holmes in St Saviour but there is

Kate Harriett Holmes Dec 1872 St Pancras 1b 142 mmn Holmes

which might be her.

There are also these for the other children

Thomas Byron Holmes Dec 1874 St Saviour 1d 19 No mmn
Sarah Byron Holmes Sep 1872 St Saviour 1d 27 No mmn
Emma Byron Holmes Dec 1879 St Saviour 1d 27 No mmn

The only other Census entries I can see at the moment for a Peter Byron born c1833 show him as a Labourer born Farnham Surrey with wife Louisa and sons Peter and Charles No sign of Louisa after 1871 and no death either. Can't find Jane, Peter and the children after 1881.

Emeltee
 

emeltee

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#8
There is a Census entry in Southwark 1871

Joseph Holmes 38 Carman
Jane Holmes 37 Book Folder
Jane Holmes 6 mths

All born Southwark.

I can't find them in subsequent Censuses and I'm wondering if 6 mth old Jane could have become Kate by 1881. There doesn't seem to be a birth ref for her and it was the occupation of Book Folder which caught my eye.

Emeltee
 
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#9
Thank you all so much for your replies. Will purchase the relevant birth certificate for Kate Holmes and see if her mother was married or whether she was illegitimate. Getting so confused with entries for Byron/Holmes and Byron Holmes. I don't think that Jane Holmes ever married Peter Byron as can't find a marriage for them. Will have to do some more digging. Thanks again
 
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#10
Have found on 1861 census Jane Holmes b 1834 Dublin married to Joseph Holmes b1835 Southwark. They were married 7/6/1854 and had 3 children, Joseph 1854, Mary A 1857, Jane 1860 ( if this is the same family as the 1871 census Jane must have died before another Jane was born 1870). I am beginning to think that Jane lived with Peter Byron whilst still married to Joseph. Will try and find deaths for Joseph Holmes and a possible wife of Peter Byron. Does anyone know if it is usual for just the mother to be named on baptism certs?
 

p.risboy

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#11
If just the mother is named in a baptism, it's a sign of an illigitmate child.
If the mother was widowed at the time of birth, it would possibly say so.
E.G. Sarah Smith, child of Mary Smith, a Widow.....or Widow of John Smith. It all depends on the information given, or asked for, and the thoroughness of the Cleric....some Clerics were lazy, other were more thorough.

Steve.:)
 
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#12
At last, think I have found Jane and Peter on 1891 census. They come under the transcription Byen Torline, but when I looked at the census itself it definitely looks like Byron Holmes. I really think that Peter and Jane were married to other people whom they both left and went to live together and have subsequent children. Still trying to find deaths for their other partners. What do you think
 

emeltee

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#13
The site I use has them as Byrne Holmes. I'd say it is definitely them. Can't seem to find them after that. There is a death in Lambeth 1896 for a Peter Byron born c1832 who may be your man. Again cannot see anything for Jane

I also agree with you that they never married, but at least they seem to have stayed together.

Emeltee
 
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#14
Again thank you so much for all the help. Will probably never be able to confirm my thoughts 100% but think I am 99% correct in both Jane and Peter leaving their respective spouses and living together. Take care you all
 
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#15
Hi. Still going round in circles trying to ascertain whether or not Jane Holmes was a married lady or single with an illegitimate child. I have now come across a Jane Holmes b @ 1834 Middlesex, London who, in 1851, was a patient in "House of Recovery" in Alverthorpe with Thornes, Wakefield, Yorkshire. Has anyone any idea what a House of Recovery was. The house only had 5 people listed as living there in 1851.
 

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