Manorial rolls Chalfont St Peter

[Ladybird1300]

I'm a bit confused I have some information about some copyhold land being left to my ancestor Russell Farmer, I know he was the heir of John Russell who died young and left the land to his twin sisters Martha and Mary aged nine. The land came to Russell through his mother Martha and although her twin Mary married she didn't have any children for it to go to.

The information I have is a schedule of Copyhold and Freehold and the Manorial Court records as well, but they read different one says John's father was William and the other says his father was John, if you need to see the whole Manorial record I can post it here.

Many thanks

 

[p.risboy]

The two deaths are 63 years apart. Or have I got it wrong.? 1675 & 1738.

 

[Ladybird1300]

1675 is when John dies and leaves the copyhold to his sisters aged nine, Martha is the only one to have children so the property passes to Russell, I don't know if it's at her death because I don't know her death, but the schedule says it's passed down through three John Russell's before Russell receives it, but it doesn't say that on the manorial records. Do you have any ideas??

 

[p.risboy]

1738 - So was John's son, Russell Russell.?? It just says to his heir Russell. And in 1748, Just Russell again.?

 

[Ladybird1300]

On the schedule it says John left it to his heir Russell Farmer and then to his son Russell Farmer. Farmer is his name not his occupation 😀

 

[p.risboy]

.........I need new glasses.

Could it be John Russel Snr. in the first instance, and John Russell Junior left more property to Russel Farmer.?

Too many Russells, it's confusing as a surname and christian name.
/

 

[Ladybird1300]

That’s what it says on the schedule, but I’m confused because on the Manorial record, which is the other one above it says John’s father and Martha and Mary’s father, was William. At least that’s how I think it reads

 

[p.risboy]

That seems to be right, with William as father. So his sisters Mary & Martha get a share.

https://shop.buckscc.gov.uk/s4s/Whe...50&bcgId=fcea1611-2a26-4a1d-a4a6-b480f7423e14

 

[Ladybird1300]

Yes that’s right, but then I looked at the Schedule and it appears it passed through 3 John Russell’s to Russell Farmer which is why I’m confused.
There are other John Russell’s mentioned at various times in the Court Rolls but I don’t know if they were related

 

[p.risboy]

Do you have access to FMP. ? Not sure if they cover Chalfont.
A single name search from BucksFHS costs £1 per 100 years. per burial, baptism or marriage. So for £3 you may get results. Or you can get all names, all events as long as it's from Church PR's, as they don't cover Registry Office events. From 1538 to 1901. That costs abt £38 for the the whole of Bucks.

 

[Ladybird1300]

They have both Chalfont St Peter and Chalfont St Giles, I’m wondering if it was just a mistake?? Over the years there seems to be many Russell’s living on the Manor, even the Lord they pay fealty to is the Russell family of Woburn Abbey. May be I just need another piece of information??

 

[p.risboy]

Baron Russell, of Cheneys (1539 ). Chenies isn't that far from Chalfont.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_of_Bedford

 

[Ladybird1300]

And there are more Russell's than you can shake a stick at, don't know where mine are in the standing

 

[Ladybird1300]

Well so much for asking for baptisms for my Russell's, looks like they weren't born in Buckinghamshire after all back to square one. I can't see baptisms for any of William's children anywhere

 

[p.risboy]

So, did the Russells marry into your Farmers.?.......Does that explain Russell Farmer inheriting.?

At least you know they're not in Bucks.

 

[Ladybird1300]

Yes, Christopher Farmer was from Aston Clinton from what I can make out and he was an Innholder. He stood as an attorney for someone on the Manorial land. There are some years that are missing, especially at the time of the civil war.
I did a search of all records on FMP and the only twins born at the right time were born in Exeter to a John and Grace. There was also a John born in Exeter about the right time and his father was John, but no sign of a William

 

[Ladybird1300]

Also I have a Mary Russell married to Henry Farmer 1815 Shoreditch, Henry's father was another Russell who was the grandson of one of the other Russell's.
I'm still looking for more information about Mary all I know is she was born in Whitechapel in c1795. I'm guessing she was also a part of this Russell family in Chalfont St Peter, but as she's a hundred years adrift I don't know how to find the way back, there are at least three Mary's born at the time with at least two churches which could have been used

 

[p.risboy]

Not sure if this is worth anything whatsoever.!!

In the Marriage Bonds List for Bucks, there is this marriage Bond for a Richard FARMAR, packer, of Walbrook, City of London, to Mary Ann Eyles of Bradwell, Bucks. Place of expected marriage is Great Linford, Bucks.

Both those villages are no part of Milton Keynes. But far enough away from Chalfont, 50 odd miles or so.

I'm not finding anything concrete at all.

 

[Ladybird1300]

What year is this please Steve?? I estimate Christopher was born c1655. he was a widower when he married Martha Russell, they married St James Dukes Palace. There was a marriage in Great Missenden to a Mary Durrant in 1680 so I thought she was the first wife. It's like he appeared from nowhere.
There were a couple of Farmers in the area, I've seen a Thomas and a William Farmer mentioned, but I don't know if either of them were related.

Martha's twin Mary married a Mr Big, it says on the rolls his name was Henry, but I've only found a marriage for Mary to John Bigg from Hertfordshire at St Andrew Holborn.

 

[p.risboy]

Ooops, sorry. ..............15th Sept. 1753.

Gret Missenden - Marriage 12 Sep 1680
Christopher FARMER of St Leonards
Mary DURANT of Wigginton.