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Mary LIGHTBODY

FRANCIS LINDEN Party 2 Name ELLEN MCMULLAN(Spinster)
Date of Event19 October 1893
Group Registration ID2150405SR
District/Reg AreaDownpatrickImage
Father Bernard McMullan
 
Thanks Ellie.

My ancestors. Samuel a brother of my William.
Hello DaveHam9, I am a Hamilton by birth. I have connected to the Hamiltons of Ballymacarn, (near Ballynahinch) County Down, by use of two different types of DNA. James Hamilton born circa 1798 had a son James (Jackie) and apparently two daughters, Rachel and Nancy Agnes (they both went to Canada). It is thought that the Samuel being talked about in this thread might be a brother or half-brother. If I am reading what you have written correctly, it looks like we might be talking about the same Samuel? Even if he is different, it would be good to know.
 
Hello and welcome to the Forum.

I know nothing of Rachel and Nancy Agnes or about any of my Hamiltons going to Canada.

The only children I have so far from this marriage ...

James Hamilton married to Sarah Ann Graham on 1.12.1854 at Ballynahinch 1st Presbyterian. Both came from Ballycarn. James’ father was also James.

James HAMILTON . Magheradrool son of James Hamilton; aged 20 married Sarah Ann Graham 1 Dec 1854; father of John b. 28 Nov 1867 (regd. Ballynahinch) CR

... is a son John G ...

John Hamilton
Gender Male
Birth Date 28 Nov 1867
Birthplace 0563, BALLYNAHINCH, DOWN, IRELAND
Father James Hamilton
Mother Sarah Ann Graham
Batch C701341
GS Film 101224

... who married ...

M/1900/D1/1336/3/6 John Hamilton Dickson 14th November 1900 Down
M/1900/D1/1336/3/6 Annabella Dickson Hamilton 14th November 1900 Down

Dave
 
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By this death I have Samuel as a brother of William, Margaret and John. All have mother a Ellen/Helen Newell. All children of James who died 2 Jul 1867 and Ellen nee Newell who died 23 Jul 1866.

1902 DEATHS in the District of Auchinleck in the County of Ayr
No. 20 - Samuel Hamilton Coal Miner (Married to Sarah Dunkeld) - 1902 May Fifteenth 9H 5M P.M. Mansfield View Auchinleck - M - 74 Years - James Hamilton Labourer (deceased) Helen Hamilton M.S. Newall (deceased) - Apoplexy as cert. by D. Campbell L R C P & S E - Jas Stewart Step-Son-in-Law present - 1902 May 16th at Auchinleck John Dalziel Registrar

Age at death is out as James was 67 in 1901 census.

Page 415
DEATHS Registered in the District of Ballynahinch in the Union of Downpatrick in the County of Down
No. 345 - 1907 Twenty second December Ballymacarn - James Hamilton - male - Married - 63 years - Farmer - Pneumonia 7 days Certified - Sarah Ann Hamilton Widow of deceased Present at death Ballymacarn - Twenty fourth December 1907 - Geo. Browne Registrar

No mother's maiden name there so no proof that James is a brother.
 
Hello and welcome to the Forum.

I know nothing of Rachel and Nancy Agnes or about any of my Hamiltons going to Canada.

The only children I have so far from this marriage ...

James Hamilton married to Sarah Ann Graham on 1.12.1854 at Ballynahinch 1st Presbyterian. Both came from Ballycarn. James’ father was also James.

James HAMILTON . Magheradrool son of James Hamilton; aged 20 married Sarah Ann Graham 1 Dec 1854; father of John b. 28 Nov 1867 (regd. Ballynahinch) CR

... is a son John G ...

John Hamilton
Gender Male
Birth Date 28 Nov 1867
Birthplace 0563, BALLYNAHINCH, DOWN, IRELAND
Father James Hamilton
Mother Sarah Ann Graham
Batch C701341
GS Film 101224

... who married ...

M/1900/D1/1336/3/6 John Hamilton Dickson 14th November 1900 Down
M/1900/D1/1336/3/6 Annabella Dickson Hamilton 14th November 1900 Down

Dave

Hi Dave,

I match descendants of Rachel and Nancy Agnes at Ancestry.com. They believe they descend from the James Hamilton born circa 1798 and that their people are from Ballymacarn. In fact Rachel has this on her gravestone. The John Hamilton you mention above has descendants. One tested SNPs for me and matched me 5 SNPs beyond our common group called I-A376. I am the Administrator of the Hamilton Y-DNA Surname Project at Family Tree DNA. This matching makes this gentleman one of my two closest matched out of about 850 participants, my closest match, excepting my late half brother who was recruited by me. It appears to me that the autosomal matching on Ancestry is pulled together by the Y-DNA testing. There is a group of us sharing information. Is there a way to send a private message?

Thanks,
Don
 
Something is not right, Don.

The John Hamilton you mention above has descendants. ...

My William died in Cork and Margaret and John I mentioned died in Australia.

WILLIAM HAMILTON
Date of Death 1895
Group Registration ID 4080147
SR District/Reg Area Cork
Deceased Age at Death 72

SCHEDULE B
1886 DEATHS in the District of Ballaarat East in the Colony of Victoria Registered by William D McKee
No. 1536 9 October 1886 Glen Park Shire of Bungaree County Grant - Margaret McCoubrie - Female 54 years - Exhaustion Hydatid of Lungs and Liver 12 months Dr Womarski ? 22 September 1886 - James Hamilton Farmer Ellen Hamilton MS Newell - 11639 - John Morris Assistant Undertaker employed at Funeral Ballarat East - Wm D McKee 11 October 1886 Ballaarat East - 11 October 1886 Cemetery Ballaarat C Morris - Carter Whitby, John Morris - Ballynahinch Co Down Ireland 20 years in Victoria - Ballynahinch Co Down Ireland 22 years John Alexander McCoubrie - James deceased Louden 26 years

Victoria Death 7694/1922 HAMILTON John 86 James Ellen UNK d. Ballarat, Vic.

William and John were both in the R.I.C. and John in Mounted Police in Victoria so I have lots of details on them from their police records.
 
Something is not right, Don.



My William died in Cork and Margaret and John I mentioned died in Australia.

WILLIAM HAMILTON
Date of Death 1895
Group Registration ID 4080147
SR District/Reg Area Cork
Deceased Age at Death 72

SCHEDULE B
1886 DEATHS in the District of Ballaarat East in the Colony of Victoria Registered by William D McKee
No. 1536 9 October 1886 Glen Park Shire of Bungaree County Grant - Margaret McCoubrie - Female 54 years - Exhaustion Hydatid of Lungs and Liver 12 months Dr Womarski ? 22 September 1886 - James Hamilton Farmer Ellen Hamilton MS Newell - 11639 - John Morris Assistant Undertaker employed at Funeral Ballarat East - Wm D McKee 11 October 1886 Ballaarat East - 11 October 1886 Cemetery Ballaarat C Morris - Carter Whitby, John Morris - Ballynahinch Co Down Ireland 20 years in Victoria - Ballynahinch Co Down Ireland 22 years John Alexander McCoubrie - James deceased Louden 26 years

Victoria Death 7694/1922 HAMILTON John 86 James Ellen UNK d. Ballarat, Vic.

William and John were both in the R.I.C. and John in Mounted Police in Victoria so I have lots of details on them from their police records.

Dave, I agree that something is not right. I have asked three of our more knowledgeable folks to put eyes on this. Best regards, Don
 
Who is the mother of Rachel and Nancy Agnes ?
I am Nancy Agnes Hamilton's great granddaughter. Dongee asked me to have a look at this thread. I thought I would join in here. 60 trees on Ancestry name Rachel Reid as Nancy Agnes mother, but there is no documentation. There is also no birth or death dates and no places named where she was born or died. I have her on my tree now but have taken her off and put her back on many times. Because of DNA and family records, I know that Arthur b1822, Rachel b1823, Nancy b1831, and James b1834 were siblings. The distant cousins who have the same relationship to my sister and I share about the same amount of DNA. My sister and I are one generation ahead of them, so it might be different from what they share with each other.

Samuel? William? their existence would make sense because there is a gap of 8 years between Nancy and her older sister Rachel on our tree. I have added Samuel (b1830 to our tree based only on his father's name and the gap between Rachel and Nancy as well as the Magheradrool C of I where the Hamiltons and Macks attended.

Rachel Reid's husband James Hamilton died the same year their son James was born. It makes sense to me that Rachel Reid Hamilton may have remarried at some point and moved who knows where? Another possibility is that she moved in with one of her children. If she had moved in with Arthur, Rachel, Nancy or James, surely one of them would have recorded her vital statistic? No, if there is a Samuel and a William, then my bet is that there are more siblings out there. Most likely a daughter who took her mother in. That is what they did back then, isn’t it? If she was my 2x great grandmother.
 
I still say something is not right. I have no DNA results.

My William joined the R.I.C. and I have his service record and his marriage and his death pointing to birth in the range 1823 - 1827. The Rev John Shaw was his sponsor. I have no baptism for William as records don't exist for the period concerned.

There was a Rev John Shaw in 1st Ballynahinch Presbyterian Church during the
period concerned. Baptismal records covering 1841-58, 1869 and 1871-1986
and marriage records 1870-1900 are held by the Public Record Office -
PRONI - under reference MIC.1P/302.

1st Presbyterian Church, Ballynahinch
The Ordnance Survey Memoirs of 1836 describe it as a plain, slated, roughcast, rectangular building with 3 galleries; there were 100 regular attendants then when Rev. Shaw was the minister; he lived at The Spa, near Ballynahinch & was minister from 1831-1870.

Samuel was born abt 1829.

Margaret was born abt 1831.

James was born abt 1833.

John was born on 1 Jan 1836.

All children of James d. 2 Jul 1867 aged 69 son James the informant
and
Ellen Newell d. 23 Jul 1866 aged 74 - informant William at Waterford crossed out and replaced by Sarah.

From his service record William was in Waterford City 28 Jul 1865 - Promotion P2HC 10 Oct 1871

Sarah is the wife of son James who married in the same church:

James Hamilton married to Sarah Ann Graham on 1.12.1854 at Ballynahinch 1st Presbyterian. Both came from Ballycarn. James’ father was also James.

James HAMILTON . Magheradrool son of James Hamilton; aged 20 married Sarah Ann Graham 1 Dec 1854; father of John b. 28 Nov 1867 (regd. Ballynahinch) CR

Son James d. 22 Dec 1907 and wife was the informant.

James and Sarah Ann had a son John G.

Probate abstract: Probate of the Will of James Hamilton late of Ballymacarn County Down Farmer who died 22 December 1907 granted at Belfast to John Hamilton and William Armstrong Farmers.
 
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Who is the mother of Rachel and Nancy Agnes ?
I misspoke in my earlier reply. Sorry about that, I hate to give wrong information. The Canadian Hamilton's all gave their religion as PresbyterIan in the 1851, 1861, and 1871 Canadian censuses. It was another ancestor who married at Magheradrool.
 
I still say something is not right. I have no DNA results.

My William joined the R.I.C. and I have his service record and his marriage and his death pointing to birth in the range 1823 - 1827. The Rev John Shaw was his sponsor. I have no baptism for William as records don't exist for the period concerned.

There was a Rev John Shaw in 1st Ballynahinch Presbyterian Church during the
period concerned. Baptismal records covering 1841-58, 1869 and 1871-1986
and marriage records 1870-1900 are held by the Public Record Office -
PRONI - under reference MIC.1P/302.

1st Presbyterian Church, Ballynahinch
The Ordnance Survey Memoirs of 1836 describe it as a plain, slated, roughcast, rectangular building with 3 galleries; there were 100 regular attendants then when Rev. Shaw was the minister; he lived at The Spa, near Ballynahinch & was minister from 1831-1870.

Samuel was born abt 1829.

Margaret was born abt 1831.

James was born abt 1833.

John was born on 1 Jan 1836.

All children of James d. 2 Jul 1867 aged 69 son James the informant
and
Ellen Newell d. 23 Jul 1866 aged 74 - informant William at Waterford crossed out and replaced by Sarah.

From his service record William was in Waterford City 28 Jul 1865 - Promotion P2HC 10 Oct 1871

Sarah is the wife of son James who married in the same church:

James Hamilton married to Sarah Ann Graham on 1.12.1854 at Ballynahinch 1st Presbyterian. Both came from Ballycarn. James’ father was also James.

James HAMILTON . Magheradrool son of James Hamilton; aged 20 married Sarah Ann Graham 1 Dec 1854; father of John b. 28 Nov 1867 (regd. Ballynahinch) CR

Son James d. 22 Dec 1907 and wife was the informant.

James and Sarah Ann had a son John G.

Probate abstract: Probate of the Will of James Hamilton late of Ballymacarn County Down Farmer who died 22 December 1907 granted at Belfast to John Hamilton and William Armstrong Farmers.


Dave, I agree with you that something is not right. But it is exciting to make your acquaintance and to find our about William. Do we have two Samuels? Since there is no question the Ballymacarn Hamiltons I am talking about are related to me and the Canadian cousins, because of DNA results, I have to ask myself are we looking at maybe another generation being in there? It is possible for you to be related to us and for it not to show up in the autosomal DNA because, as you probably know, that DNA tends to disappear over the generations. Sometimes a piece of autosomal DNA will hold on but other lines of descendants from the same common ancestor will have not had it passed on. The SNP does not behave this way. This marker will continue father to son and will not mutate or disappear. Would you be willing to test for one SNP? It is Y168313, and is available at www.yseq.net It will cost you $18 for the test and $6 for a total of $24 US. This will be totally in your control. When you get the result it will have a plus or negative sign next to the number showing if you are positive for the marker or not. This test won't answer all of our questions, but it will tell us if we are in the same all male line of Hamiltons in Ballymacarn, County Down. Thanks for all the information you are providing and for consideration with the Y testing. Best Regards, Don
 
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