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Mathews / Templeton

horse

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Johanna needs to have been born before 1843 and die in 1875.

If we accept Johanna O'donnell is the wife of Thomas Welsh, mother of:
Alice b. 1860, Thomas b. 1861, William Welsh b. 1864, Mary b. 1865, James b. 1868, Margaret b. 1870, Jane 1872, unnamed b. 1875 & d. 1875 - All b. Pleasant Creek or Stawell.

A Thomas Welsh and Johanna were married in 1858, Stawell. A Johanna Welsh d. 1875. Gibbo pointed out that the death reg. numbers of the unnamed Welsh and Johanna Welsh, nee O'Donnell were consecutive, suggesting they had died about the same time (see post #99). Thomas Welsh is confirmed as the unnamed's father on the index.

There is a large amount of corroborative evidence between 1858 and 1875 suggesting it is the correct family.

At this stage, Mary Welsh's marriage in 1890 says she was 23y; according to her birth in 1865, she would have been 25y, this has now been rationalised, (see post #96). The only other solution would be that Mary 1865 had d. very young and another Mary b. 1867, nothing has been found to support this theory, however.

A number of trees have been used in this case, there appears to be a lot of erroneous info and/or mixed facts, often seen with tree owners copying or making rash assumptions. Hopefully at this stage we have filtered out the errors.

We are left with the birth and arrival of Johanna and possibly any family. In post #94 the O'Donnel family; Edmond and Mary (possible parents) and Edmund and Johanna (possible offspring) arrived in Victoria in 1857 via the Ebba Brahe. I didn't fully understand the record, i.e. if they were ages or arrival dates or both (mixed). The Dec 1857 arrival would make Johanna 17y at marriage [1858] and b. abt. 1841. It is not possible to confirm Tipperary as birthplace, as there is also Co. Clare birth 1840 for a Johanna O'Donnell. Having said that, Johanna's death reg. is clear she was b. abt. 1836, I think a 5 year gap may be just a bit too large to ignore. It would also put into question the 1857 arrival, as Johanna would be abt. 21y.

If Marie wishes to take this further it may be appropriate to start another thread with the O'Donnells'.

Geoff
 

DaveHam9

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Thanks Geoff.

Re the passenger arrivals to Victoria only the month and year is in the index. The other digits are ages. We can rule out the Johanna who arrived in 1857 so that leaves her arrival and pob still open.

Dave
 

bodkal

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Thank you Geoff for your summary and to everyone else that has helped with finding me info. I am happy to lay this to rest.

One last thing did we find any info on Judith Templeton's family? or William's father Henry Mathews? I'll have a read back through everything.
 

bodkal

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Just a thought. My mum always thought Alfred's first name was Templeton. Is there a chance since we can't find him arriving in Australia under Alfred could he have come out using Templeton Mathews?
 

DaveHam9

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One last thing did we find any info on Judith Templeton's family? or William's father Henry Mathews? I'll have a read back through everything.
I didn't look at either of those but can do later today. :)

The name in the marriage is TEMPLEMAN, as is the middle name in the birth reg for Alfred.
 
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horse

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Hi

The censuses have William's birth place as Clyst Hydon, this may be him without the S! You mentioned William's mother may be a Jane Berry.

Family Search:
name: William Mathew
gender:Male
baptism/christening date: 03 Oct 1813
baptism/christening place: CLYST HYDON,DEVON,ENGLAND
father's name: Henry Mathew
mother's name: Jane
indexing project (batch) number: C05068-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 917179

This could be Henry & Jane:
groom's name: Henry Matthews
bride's name: Jane Berry
marriage date: 14 Dec 1812
marriage place: Tiverton,Devon,England
indexing project (batch) number: M05172-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 917540, 917541

Geoff
 
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Assuming Thomas and Johanna are the correct parents, this may be of interest..

There is a lot of conflicting info on Thomas b. abt. 1834 (UK or Victoria, Australia) and Johanna b. abt. 1841 (Tipperary), m. abt. 1858 Victoria. Perhaps that is another story :biggrin:

Mary and possible siblings:
Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
Name: Mary Welsh
Father's Name: Thomas Welsh
Mother's Name: Johanna Donald
Birth Place: Pleasant Creek, Victoria
Registration Year: 1865
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 4376

Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922
Name: Thomas Welsh
Father's Name: Thomas Welsh
Mother's Name: Johanna Coonald
Birth Place: Pleasant Creek, Victoria
Registration Year: 1861
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 22396
Australia Birth Index, 1788-1922

Name: William Welsh
Father's Name: Thomas Welsh
Mother's Name: Johanna Donald
Birth Place: Pleasant Creek, Victoria
Registration Year: 1864
Registration Place: Victoria
Registration number: 4426

There are others but non-validation or Thomas' possible death would question them, unless Johanna remarried. And it doesn't help the originator who is looking primarily for Alfred Mathews.

Geoff
Hi,I have a Thomas Welsh christened 1834 in patterdale Westmorland(father William Welsh/Welch born Alston Cumberland )Mother Mary Harrison .Could this be your Thomas .He came out with his father+wifeX2(nee Voce ) and sister,Jane in 1852 on "The Geelong"
 
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