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McCann and Loughran

DeniseJD

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#1
I'm looking for a marriage of Patrick Joseph McCann and Mary Bridget Fee (possibly known as Ann). They had 8 or 9 children all born Newry, Armargh the last one born 1914 (my grandmother). I guess (pure guess on the dates) the first was born about 1894 ish. Likely/possibly Upper Killeavy RC Church, Newry, around 1893 ish.


I'm also looking for the RC marriage of ML Loughran (possibly called James) and Ann, in Camlough, Armargh. Ann was born around 1859 and widowed by 1901, first child born 1879, so possibly their marriage was around 1878/9.

Can anyone help please?
 
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#2
Hi Denise
Looks like him, but no useful info I'm afraid, what you see is all you get
IGI Beta

Ireland, Civil Registration Indexes, 1845-1958 for Patrick Joseph McCann

Name: Patrick Joseph McCann
Registration District: Armagh
Event Type: MARRIAGES
Registration Quarter and Year:
Estimated Birth Year:
Age (at Death):
Mother's Maiden Name:
Film Number: 101264
Volume Number: 1
Page Number: 81
Digital Folder Number: 4199366
Image Number: 00173

dave
 

DeniseJD

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#3
Thanks dave. Can I follow this up, can I use these numbers to order a certificate and if I did, would that provide further information, do you think?
 

juliejtp

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#4
Hi Denise,

Just doing a search, there are 2 marriages that came up on this site for a Joseph Patrick Mccann. When putting in Mary Bridget Fee there was no marriages under that name. There is a charge for viewing the marriage details 5 euros which dosnt come cheap if its the wrong one.
 

DeniseJD

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#6
Thanks Julie
I've looked at the site, the dates are wrong for the ones, as you say. I've registered with that site now, but it is expensive to pay per view so probably won't go too far with that.
thanks for looking and the pointer
 
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#7
Thanks dave. Can I follow this up, can I use these numbers to order a certificate and if I did, would that provide further information, do you think?
Hi Denise
I'm not 100% sure but I think the refs are for the Family Search records.
There is also a similar record for a James Loughran for 1879, but again there are no details

dave
 

Elwyn

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#8
Have you located the McCann family in the 1911 census? If you do it’ll firm up their names and will tell you when they married, as that question was asked in that census.

www.census.nationalarchives.ie/search/?then

Note that Newry is in Co Down. The Armagh registration district includes part of Co Down so BDMs there are registered under Armagh, but for census and other purposes Co Down is the relevant county.
 

DeniseJD

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#9
thanks Elwyn, I've checked the census for 1901 but it just doesn't seem to add up to what I want it to do!!

The 1901 shows a house - 25 in Ballylough (Dundrum, Down)
M Cann Maggie A 18 Female Daughter R Catholic
M Cann Mary T 13 Female Daughter R Catholic
M Cann Catherine 15 Female Daughter R Catholic
M Cann Patrick 54 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic
M Cann Hugh 27 Male Son R Catholic
M Cann Edward 25 Male Son R Catholic
M Cann Francis 21 Male Son R Catholic
M Cann Patrick 30 Male Son R Catholic
M Cann James 9 Male Son R Catholic
M Cann Mary 50 Female Wife R Catholic

but the known children of Patrick Joseph are
Michael Harry b 1902
Rose b 1906
Thomas b 1907
John b 1909
Kathleen b 1914

I know that these would not be shown on this census but I cannot find them on the 1911 one either.

I think I may have got it all wrong so need to start again maybe! :eek:
 

Elwyn

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#10
I’d try and get one or more of the birth certificates and then use the address on that to search the 1901 & 1911 censuses. McCann might be misspelled or mistranscribed. I can see what might be Michael’s birth:

Michael Henry McCann July - Sept 1902 Newry Volume 1, page 744. Henry and Harry are of course interchangeable names. (You can get a photocopy of this from GRO Roscommon for €4).
 
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#11
Hi Denise
this looks like your family on the latest census, children fit as does last name, visitor Henry Fee.

Residents of a house 10 in Derry Beg (Ballybot, Armagh)

Mc Cann Patrick 40 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Armagh Genl Labourer Read and write - Married
Mc Cann Bridget 33 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Armagh - Cannot read - Married - 13yrs 8 children 7 living
Mc Cann Mary 12 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Armagh Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Mc Cann Petter 10 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Armagh Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Mc Cann Henry 8 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Armagh Scholar Read and write - Single - - - -
Mc Cann Rose Anna 6 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Armagh Scholar Cannot read - Single - - - -
Mc Cann Patrick 5 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Armagh - Cannot read - Single - - - -
Mc Cann Tommy 4 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Armagh - Cannot read - Single - - - -
Mc Cann John 2 Male Son Roman Catholic Co Armagh - Cannot read - Single - - - -
Fee Henry 29 Male Visitor Roman Catholic Co Armagh Pensioner of the Royal Artillery 29 Company Read and write - Single

dave
 
Last edited:
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#12
Hi Denise

and in 1901

Residents of a house 36 in Mounanorris (Mountnorris, Armagh)

McCann Patrick 31 Male Head of Family Roman Catholic Co Armagh Farm Labourer Read and write - Married -
McCann Bridget 26 Female Wife Roman Catholic Co Armagh - Cannot read or write - Married -
McCann Mary Margret 2 Female Daughter Roman Catholic Co Armagh - Cannot read or write - Not Married -
McCann Peter Male Son Roman Catholic Co Armagh - - - Not Married

dave
 

DeniseJD

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#13
Thank you Elwyn, that's helpful. I went onto rootsireland and paid to get some info (I shoudn't spend the money but couldn't stop myself!!) on a birth and found that the parents are called Patrick McCann and Bridget Fee so I am really pleased about that. The family called her Ann and then sometimes Mary so it has taken a while! I will send of for a birth certificate now.

:)
 

DeniseJD

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#14
Oh wow, thanks so much dave, that's brilliant. I was writing the last post so didn't see this, but now I am so pleased.

this is a brilliant site, thank you all so much for your help.:biggrin::biggrin:
 

DeniseJD

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#15
More questions!

If the children's births are registered as civil, is it likely that the marriage of the parents was registered as civil as well? What is the difference? The children's births are shown as civil but the census shows they are RC so I thought it would be a church marriage? I've narrowed the marriage down to 1897 where both a Patrick McCann was married in Armargh and a Bridget Fee but there are 2 choices for Bridget, one civil one church and 5 possibles (3 civil, 2 church) for Patrick, so trying to narrow it down now.
 

Elwyn

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#16
All RC marriages from 1864 onwards would be in the civil registers as well as the church records. (They were simply copied across, every quarter, I think to ensure a comprehensive record of all marriages in Ireland). As I understand it, a registry office wedding would just get one entry on Roots, but a church wedding should generate two. So with your multiple choices, you may actually be looking at the same event (or perhaps 2 marriages, not 4).

The certificate will of course confirm where the ceremony was conducted. But in my opinion a church ceremony is more likely, for RC in that area at that time, than a registry office wedding.
 

DeniseJD

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#18
Hi

An update to this, which I am really pleased about! I now have the marriage certificate of Patrick McCann to Bridget Fee, dated 25 Nov 1897, in Carrickbroad, Armagh. :)

I took this one from rootsireland, and paid for it. Bridget Fee born/baptised 20.12.1873 to Mary Daly and Micheal Fee in Carrickbroad, Dromintee, RC with sponsors Patt Magill and Bridget Magill. I wonder how much information I could get by sending for this birth certificate, do you think there would be a lot more information or something important on the certificate in addition to this information? Maybe the full address? Can I order a birth certificate from Ireland without a specific date on it, ie the one above is either a birth or baptism.

I have Mary Fee as a widow in the 1901 and 1911 census in Carrickbroad.

Also on rootsireland there is a Micheal Fee born 1844 Armargh, but only the one. I'm not sure if this is the correct one.

I expect the Bridget Fee birth certificate is the one I need now for this line, but not sure if it will give me more information?

D :confused:
 

Elwyn

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#19
There is no more accurate address to be had. Carrickbroad is a townland. Street names and house numbers were only introduced in rural Ireland in the 1950s. Prior to that your name and your townland was all that was required to get a letter to your home. The townland was the smallest administrative land unit in Ireland. Each had defined boundaries and maps exist of each of them.

Carrickbroad is about a half a mile east of Jonesborough. The Dublin to Belfast railway line runs through the east side of it. In Griffiths Valuation in the 1860s, there were 200 households in it. None were named Fee, suggesting that the Fee family moved there sometime after that date. There were 2 Fee households (Henry & Catherine) in the nearby townland of Drumintee. Possible relatives?

You can see a map of Carrickbroad and of Drumintee on the Griffiths Valuation website.

If you wanted to find exactly where your Fee family lived in Carrickbroad, you would need to get the Revaluation books in PRONI, Belfast for 1890 - 1900 when you know they were living there, to get the Griffiths plot number. You could then compare that with the on line map and identify the exact property (almost certainly a small farm).

You can order a birth certificate without the exact date of birth. RC practice was to baptise within 24 to 48 hours of the the birth, so the actual date of birth is probably very close to 20th December. You won't get a huge amount of extra information from the birth cert. You'll get the occupation(s) and the wife's former name, but you probably have that already. Cheapest way of ordering a copy is from GRO Roscommon. They will provide you with a photocopy, which should cost 6 euros.
 

DeniseJD

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#20
Thank you Elywn, really useful and interesting information. Yes, I do already do have Mary's maiden name which is Daly and she was a farmer for the latter part, shown on the two censuses so I guess she was one previously too.

thanks
Denise
 

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