Messham + Williams

[gwenythgreen]

Hi Friends

I have my late mothers parents marriage certificate in front of me,I am having a problem in tracing the families though.

The wedding took place on 12th April 1913 at The Zion Chapel Pen Y FFordd, Hope, Flintshire, Wales.

The bride was Lizzie Williams, 21 years old, spinster, Castle Street, Caergwerlie, Flintshire,Father Robert Edward Williams. Hairdresser.

The Groom was John William Messham, 28 years old, batchelor, colliery hostler, Rosslyn, Hawarden Road, Caergwerlie, Father Edward Mesham, General Labourer.

The witnesses were George Edward Evans and Lizzie Annie Messham.

I am having trouble locating where and who the parents of John and Lizzie were as I cant find them on Cencus for 1891 or 1901.

My Husbands cousins wife tried to trace this a few years ago, but this proved a brick wall for her as well.

Thankyou for any help you can give, I have tried the N. wales BMD but cant find anything on there.

Gwen.

 

[gedcom]

1901 Wales for Lizzie and family

Caergwrle
......? Lane

Robert Edwd Williams 37 Barber (hair) born Mold.
Edith Williams 27 born Cheshire
........Elizabeth Williams 9 born Tryddyn, Flintshire,
John William Williams 7 born Tryddyn, Flintshire,
Alfred Williams 6 born Tryddyn, Flintshire
Frederick Williams 4 born Tryddyn, Flintshire
Frank Williams 3 born Caergarle,
Mary Williams 1 born Caergarle,


Class: RG13; Piece: 3379; Folio: 109; Page: 37

Gedcom

 

[Lincoln Lad]

1901 census, Buckley, Burntwood
John Messham aged 46, Coal miner hewer, b Buckley
Elizabeth Messham wife aged 45, b Buckley
Alfred, son aged 27, b Buckley, Coal miner labourer.
James, son aged 22, b Buckley, Coal miner labourer.
John, son aged 19, b Buckley
Edwrad, son aged 13, b Buckley
Thomas, son aged 8, b Buckley
Elizabeth, dau aged 10,b Buckley
Emma, dau aged 6, b Buckley
Charles, son, aged 4, b Buckley
George, son aged 2, b Buckley

RG13; Piece: 3378; Folio: 21; Page: 34.

 

[Lincoln Lad]

1891 Census, Burnt Wood Cottages, Buckley
John Messham aged 35, Coal miner hewer, b Buckley
Elizabeth Messham wife aged 35, b Buckley
William, son aged 15, Coalminer, b Buckley
James, son aged 11, b Buckley
John, son aged 9, b Buckley
Joseph, son, aged 7, b Buckley
Edward, son, aged 2, b Buckley
Elizabeth, dau, 5mths b Buckley

RG12; Piece: 2869; Folio 152; Page 19

 

[gedcom]

There is this marriage reference - would need to confirm MMN via a child's birth certificate.

Robert Edward Williams, 1891 Q3 Chester Flintshire, 8a 679
Edith Long on same page.


Following on from the above.....bit of a coincidence that an Edith Long born Cheshire is living in Tryddyn with widowed father.

1891 Welsh census

Tryddyn

John Long 49 born Devon
Edith Long 18 born Stoke Cheshire,
Alfred Long 15
George Long 12

Class: RG12; Piece: 2870; Folio 167; Page 26


Gedcom

 

[gwenythgreen]

1901 census, Buckley, Burntwood
John Messham aged 46, Coal miner hewer, b Buckley
Elizabeth Messham wife aged 45, b Buckley
Alfred, son aged 27, b Buckley, Coal miner labourer.
James, son aged 22, b Buckley, Coal miner labourer.
John, son aged 19, b Buckley
Edwrad, son aged 13, b Buckley
Thomas, son aged 8, b Buckley
Elizabeth, dau aged 10,b Buckley
Emma, dau aged 6, b Buckley
Charles, son, aged 4, b Buckley
George, son aged 2, b Buckley

RG13; Piece: 3378; Folio: 21; Page: 34.

Hi Gedcom and Lincoln Lad,

You are so kind, how you did it I do not know, I think it was a case of 'couldn't see for looking, :2fun: Thank you both.

Gwen :kissu:

 

[Lincoln Lad]

Birth for witness Lizzie Annie Messham?
Births Dec 1890
Messham, Elizabeth Ann ,Chester, Vol 8a, Page 398

Other possible children on FreeBMD

 

[gwenythgreen]

There is this marriage reference - would need to confirm MMN via a child's birth certificate.

Robert Edward Williams, 1891 Q3 Chester Flintshire, 8a 679
Edith Long on same page.


Following on from the above.....bit of a coincidence that an Edith Long born Cheshire is living in Tryddyn with widowed father.

1891 Welsh census

Tryddyn

John Long 49 born Devon
Edith Long 18 born Stoke Cheshire,
Alfred Long 15
George Long 12

Class: RG12; Piece: 2870; Folio 167; Page 26


Gedcom

Hi Gedcom and Lincoln Lad.

Thank you so very much, you are a great help and very kind.:kissu: Mum in Law always said some of her ancesters came from Trydden, but never mentioned Devon. I wonder what brought them to a small rural village in wales, another mystery!

Gwen

 

[gedcom]

Your welcome Gwen. Interesting that Robert Edward Williams was a barber, I wonder if he had a shop.

Lets hope they hurry up and get the 1911 census for Wales online as it will be interesting to see where they are on that.

Gedcom

 

[gwenythgreen]

Your welcome Gwen. Interesting that Robert Edward Williams was a barber, I wonder if he had a shop.

Lets hope they hurry up and get the 1911 census for Wales online as it will be interesting to see where they are on that.

Gedcom

Hi Gedcom,

If I'm remembering rightly what my mum in law said he did have a shop halfway up Castle Street in Caergwerlie, you have to be fit to live there, as it's a very steep hill!

Mum in law was born in 1918, I think she was next to oldest, Wilfred was the oldest I think, but it will certainly be good to see the Census for 1911,

Gwen

 

[gedcom]

Hi Gwen

I wonder if any pictures exist of the shop anywhere. Good place half way up the hill, the men would go in for a sit down as well as a hair cut...

Gedcom.

 

[gwenythgreen]

Your welcome Gwen. Interesting that Robert Edward Williams was a barber, I wonder if he had a shop.

Lets hope they hurry up and get the 1911 census for Wales online as it will be interesting to see where they are on that.

Gedcom

Hi Gedcom

I have managed to trace Robert back to Mold, His father was John Williams born at Llanarmon, Denbighshire, in 1823, but it would seam that the family moved around as I have found the family in 1881 living in Festiniog with wife Elizabeth born 1818 and son Robert. In 1871 the Family consisted of Isabella aged 14 born Corniston, Lancashire, Robert aged 8, also Aunt Elizabeth Wheldon and son Thomas Francis aged 19,

I have spent the afternoon trying to find the family before 1871 also a marriage for john and Elizabeth with no success.

The Long part of the family I have now traced back to Devon/Dorset.

Thank you

Gwen

 

[gwenythgreen]

Hi Gwen

I wonder if any pictures exist of the shop anywhere. Good place half way up the hill, the men would go in for a sit down as well as a hair cut...

Gedcom.

Hi Everyone,

I have been having a sort out of some old photos from my late mother in law and have just found a photo of the shop in Caergwerie with my husbands late grandfather Robert Williams stood in the doorway

Gwen

 

[leefer]

What a great photo...love the patriotic flagpole,if you got any more let us have a look Gwen.

 

[gwenythgreen]

What a great photo...love the patriotic flagpole,if you got any more let us have a look Gwen.

Hi Leefer.

I think only that the photo is black and white and I had to reduce the size to post it here that the flagpole was painted red and white as was the traditional sign for a barber. The rest of the photos are of people I and my husband do not know, some were obviously taken in the 1920s from the ladys charlston type dress but who the ladys were I do not know.

I think we are all guilty of the mistake of keeping photos we take without putting a note who they are of, and this is obviously what my late mother in law did.

Gwen