My Cordwainer - Thomas Charles Quelch

[Suzie_Australia]

Hi, to all researching Cordwainers. I didn't know what a Cordwainer was until recently so it is my "word of the month". I knew that my great-great grandfather Thomas Charles Quelch was a boot/shoemaker but having recently received in 1864 marriage certificate his occupation is given as Cordwainer.

My Thomas Charles Quelch was born in Oxfordshire around 1828 and his father was William Quelch and this is all I know about Thomas in Oxfordshire. I found Thomas's wife and children in Westminister but would love to find out more about his original family in Oxfordshire.

A family story, fact or fiction, was that Thomas Quelch was the shoemaker for one of the Royal weddings. When over in the UK many years ago I went to the Royal Albert Museum but all they could tell me was that there were many shoemakers assigned to the royal family. So again, maybe a myth.

When in the UK I also did a day trip to Oxford and went to the museum there and found the name Quelch on one of their displays. There were probably heaps of Quelch's around.

If anyone researching cordwainers have come across the surname Quelch that would be wonderful.

Regards,
Suzanne

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
couple of things
thought you may be interested that originally, a cordwainer was a shoemaker who worked with cordwain (or cordovan), a supple leather made from goatskin. The leather was named after Cordoba, a city in south Spain famed for this soft leather. A Shoemaker just made or repaired shoes out of anything he could get hold of...

Holkes St was in fact Holles Street, off the Strand in Central London.
I can see your family, 2 families living at no 10 in 1851. Thomas 23 was from Oxford but his wife Eliza Callaghan 22 was from Bristol. I presume you have these details.

What was Williams occupation on the Mge cert?

dave

 

[p.risboy]

Hi Suzie,

Just a thought. I looked for Emma Quelch birth as on 1851 census.

Found this.

Name: Emma Quelch
Year of Registration: 1851
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Strand (1837-1913)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1
Page: 474


St.Clement Danes Church is just off Trafalgar Sqr. in London, and Strand is just up the road.

So if you can get the cert, at least you will have mothers maiden name.

Steve.

 

[p.risboy]

Also found these births for Jane Quelch.

Name: Jane Quelch
Year of Registration: 1848
Quarter of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep
District: Bristol
County: Avon, Gloucestershire
Volume: 11
Page: 109 or 169 - the image is not very good.


As Eliza E. was born in Bristol, this entry could be a possible.

Also, someone has put in an alternative surname of Eliza E. 'Callaghan' on Ancestry.

And another possible

Name: Jane Quelch
Year of Registration: 1849
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: St Giles
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1
Page: 97


Steve.

 

[davelambert271]

Hi Suzie,

Just a thought. I looked for Emma Quelch birth as on 1851 census.

Found this.

Name: Emma Quelch
Year of Registration: 1851
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
District: Strand (1837-1913)
County: London, Middlesex
Volume: 1
Page: 474


St.Clement Danes Church is just off Trafalgar Sqr. in London, and Strand is just up the road.

So if you can get the cert, at least you will have mothers maiden name.

Steve.

Hi Steve, Emma's mother's mother was living with them in 1851, so her maiden name was probably Callaghan
dave

 

[p.risboy]

Hi Steve, Emma's mother's mother was living with them in 1851, so her maiden name was probably Callaghan
dave

Well there you go Dave, 0 out of 10 for my observancy. I never seem to look further than my nose.:biggrin:

Steve.

 

[leefer]

Hi
couple of things
thought you may be interested that originally, a cordwainer was a shoemaker who worked with cordwain (or cordovan), a supple leather made from goatskin. The leather was named after Cordoba, a city in south Spain famed for this soft leather. A Shoemaker just made or repaired shoes out of anything he could get hold of...

Holkes St was in fact Holles Street, off the Strand in Central London.
I can see your family, 2 families living at no 10 in 1851. Thomas 23 was from Oxford but his wife Eliza Callaghan 22 was from Bristol. I presume you have these details.

What was Williams occupation on the Mge cert?

dave

Good work Dave...very informative about the Cordwainers...also i couldnt find Holks Street....amazing how one letter can throw you miles off..had a feeling it was spelt wrong.
I was once delivering to India Avenue in London...there were three of them and none matched my post code....after two hours wasted i was informed belatedly that the delivery address was Indian Avenue!...i went straight to it.
Good work Dave..........hope it helps Suzie.

 

[p.risboy]

Ive just been nosing around again in London.

There is a Halkin St. not far from Buckingham Palace and off of Belgrave Sqr.
And not that far from The Strand.

Coincidences I know, but fascinating.

EDIT .....Should have read Daves Post No.2.

Steve.

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
I may be jumping the gun but if Thomas's father William was a deceased musician I think your family could be..

1841
WILLIAM Quelch 50 Not born in Wiltshire, Music Master
Mary 43 No
Mary 20 No
William 17 Yes
Emma 18 Yes
Eliza 15 Yes
THOMAS 13 Yes
Alfred 9 Yes
living High St Marleborough, Wiltshire

1851
William 62 Newbury, Prof of music - Chelsea Pensioner
Mary 55 Ipswich
William H 27 Marleborough, Prof of music
Emma 30 Marleborough, Prof of music
Alfred 20 Marleborough
Fanny Collins 6 Marleborough, G. Daughter
living - High St, Marleborough

1861
William 72 Newbury, Music seller - died 1862
Mary 66 Irswich - died 1880
Emma 40 Marleborough, Prof of music
Fanny J Collins 16 Marleborough G. daughter Scholar
living Marleborough High st

If this is the correct family it means Thomas was born in Wiltshire, not Oxford

dave

 

[Suzie_Australia]

davelambert271 Hi Dave, Thanks for your reply. It's kind of nice to know that my Thomas Quelch wasn't just any old "shoemaker" but rather a "Cordwainer".

Thanks for advising me on the correct street name. Gives me an idea of the location. Does the street still exist?

I have a copy of the 1851 census showing the two families living at No. 10. The Quelch's and the Emmerson's. It is interesting that the witnesses on the marriage certificate of Thomas Quelch and his wife Eliza Callagahn were P. Emmerson (X Mark) and Mary Emmerson.

I have the impression that Thomas and Eliza decided that they had better get married on 28 June 1864 before coming to Australia in September 1864. They already had six children before they came out, (and got married) then another three in South Australia. What did they do, just run up the road to St Martins In The Field and get married!!!! Thomas's occupation on the shipping record is "bootmaker".

William Quelch's (Thomas's father) occupation on the marriage certificate is "Shoemaker". I have uploaded a copy of the marriage certificate for your reference. Haven't attached before so I hope to works. You may see something on the certificate that I have missed. An extra pair of eyes is always welcome.

My fascination with this family is that sadly Thomas Quelch committed suicide by hanging in 1884 at a place called Riverton (rural area) in South Australia and then his wife Eliza Emma (Callaghan) was killed by a train in Port Adelaide, South Australia. I will endeavour to find out about the Quelch's in Oxford as this will be quite interesting I think, especially with him being a "cordwainer" or not unless he "fibbed" about that!

p.risboy Hi Steve, The Emma Quelch you found born 1851 is (99.9% sure) my Emma. Born 28 Feb 1851, Christened 1 Jan 1852 St Bartholomew The Less, London, Died March quarter of 1852 London West. Do you know what St Bartholomew The Less refers to. I got this from the IGI. Father: Thomas Quelch, Mother: Eliza Emma (Callaghan).

The shipping register has caused me a problem in that it mentions another "Emma" being an infant. So I am calculating that this Emma was born around 1864 prior to them coming to Australia. Still searching this one. Couldn't find her on the FreeBMD Search facility but off to the library this weekend for this one.

My Jane Quelch is the one that you found born 1849 St Giles Middlesex.
I'll have to check out the Ancestory entry that you mentioned about Eliza E.

The St Clement Danes Church - is that the one they refer to in the "nursery rhyme"?

I will do some work on trying to locate an "old" London street map. I would love to pinpoint these places on a street map. Any suggestions?

I can't thank you all enough for your help. If there is any assistance that I can offer if anyone is doing some research in Australia, please do not hesitate to ask.

Regards, Suzanne

 

[p.risboy]

Hi Suzie,

1). If I have found the right Holles St. it comes up in Paddington now. (google maps) just off Cavandish Sqr.
2). St.Bartholowmew-the-Less- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Bartholomew_the_Less
3). Old London Streets. (there is a pop up when entered-close it). http://www.census1891.com/streets-a.htm
4). St.Clement Danes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Clement_Danes
5). Oranges and Lemons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oranges_and_Lemons

Hope all this helps.

Steve.

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
Holles st is still there, it runs from Oxford St to Cavendish Sq.
If you Google 'Holles St, London there are several sites and a map.

I may have found your William. Trouble is it makes Thomas illegit,
1841
William Quelch 30 Shoemaker, not in county
Hannah 25 Yes
Henry 6 Yes
George 4 Yes
Ann 2 Yes.
living St Ebbe, Oxford

You can follow William on census returns
1851 William 43 London Middlesex, living St Ebbe Oxford
1861 William 53 " " "
1871 William 63 St James " " "

this would mean that William was about 20 when Thomas was born but I can't see a link as yet
dave

 

[p.risboy]

I cannnot find a marriage for William and Hannah in 1538-1837 Oxfordshire Marriage Index, but they could have been missed.

I can only find his one:- William Quelch to Sarah Caudel at Shiplake. 28/10/1820.

Sorry.

Steve.

 

[Suzie_Australia]

Hi Steve and Dave,

Thanks for the info re the street. I will "google" straight away.

Only today I came across the William Quelch that you found in the 1861 Census - may be him.

Would it surprise me that my Thomas Quelch was illegitimate - definitely not!

At least we are narrowing it down a bit. Let you know what I come up with.

Cheers, from a very hot and sunny Phillip Island, Victoria (about 35 degrees - off to the beach tonight!)

 

[davelambert271]

Hi Steve and Dave,

Thanks for the info re the street. I will "google" straight away.

Only today I came across the William Quelch that you found in the 1861 Census - may be him.

Would it surprise me that my Thomas Quelch was illegitimate - definitely not!

At least we are narrowing it down a bit. Let you know what I come up with.

Cheers, from a very hot and sunny Phillip Island, Victoria (about 35 degrees - off to the beach tonight!)

I HATE YOU... THICK SNOW 'ERE

dave

 

[p.risboy]

I HATE YOU... THICK SNOW 'ERE

dave

DITTO. :2fun: :2fun:

Steve.

 

[Suzie_Australia]

Hi Guys,

Can't imagine living in "snow". Only 21 degrees here today - a bit cool. Friday here and I'm at work so over the weekend I will go over everything that you have sent me during the week. Will keep in touch. Cheers! Suzanne