My first ancestor transportation

[Ladybird1300]

My 4x g grandmother Elizabeth Lesurf nee Collier aged 25 giving a birth of c1787 was transported for seven years for stealing in 1812 on the ship Wanstead. I found lots of information from the Australian end but can't find a baptism for her. It's been suggested that her parents were Abraham and Elizabeth, but as she was a weaver I haven't found an Abraham who was one and the only marriage I could find at the correct time is an Abraham Collier to an Elizabeth Veasey in Warwickshire.

Her first marriage in Shoreditch to William Lesurf was in 1806 making her 19, but as he was born in 1770 I'm not sure the DOB is correct. There was a James Collier who was a witness at her wedding, who I thought may be her father or brother. I found a baptism in 1781 Shoreditch to a James and Ann Collier and was wondering if this may be her?? But then she wouldn't have been 25 when she was transported.

Many thanks
Amanda

 

[DaveHam9]

To NSW not to VDL.

Crime: Theft
Convicted at: Middlesex Gaol Delivery
Sentence term: 7 years
Ship: Wanstead
Departure date: August, 1813
Arrival date: 9th January, 1814
Place of arrival New South Wales
Passenger manifest Travelled with 118 other convicts

If it had been VDL then the Ident file should have her parents and siblings.

Such info is not on line yet for convicts to NSW.


Ages in convict records for the same convict vary a lot so hard to know which age to believe is correct.

 

[DaveHam9]

Curious. She does not appear on the NSW Records Convict index for the 1814 Wanstead.

 

[gibbo]

You seen this Amanda?

https://convictrecords.com.au/convicts/lesurfe/elizabeth/91690

 

[emeltee]

There is a baptism for an Elizabeth Collier 14 August 1789, born 21 March 1789, in Bethnal Green with parents Abraham and Elizabeth.

Abraham and Elizabeth also baptised a son James 23 July 1787 in Shoreditch but no other details in either baptism to be certain that it is the same couple for both baptisms.

 

[DaveHam9]

Background details.

https://www.jenwilletts.com/convict_ship_wanstead_1814.htm

A list of the sixty eight women who were conveyed to Parramatta on 13th January follows
...
Elizabeth le Surf

 

[Ladybird1300]

You seen this Amanda?

https://convictrecords.com.au/convicts/lesurfe/elizabeth/91690

Yes that's where I got the information, but she would be very young married to a middle aged man and it wouldn't be for money or land so I'm a bit dubious about her age. I looked at Abraham and Elizabeth, but the only marriage I found was in Warwickshire.

Amanda

 

[Ladybird1300]

Background details.

https://www.jenwilletts.com/convict_ship_wanstead_1814.htm

A list of the sixty eight women who were conveyed to Parramatta on 13th January follows
...
Elizabeth le Surf

Really interesting read Dave, very sad about the conditions that had to put up with I'm surprised more didn't die before transportation.

Amanda

 

[DaveHam9]

Pity the Ident records of convicts to NSW are not on line yet. The Ident record of one convict sent to VDL.

CON14/1/33 (Images 6&7) - Ident
Number: 17073 Name: Adlem Samuel Where Tried: Devon C Ass. When Tried: 27 July 1843 Sentence: 15 Age: 22 Height 5 8 Religion: P Read or Write: R L Married or Single: S Statement of Offense: Slg. a purse & money from Grace Hooper a Girl on the Town at Honiton Surgeon's Report: Indifferent Trade: Groom Native Place: Warminster, Wilts Remarks: F. Jas. M. Anne B. Jas. John Wm. S. Elizh. WP

F = Father = Jas.
M = Mother = Anne
B = Brothers Jas, John, Wm
S = Sister Elizh

Not sure what WP =

 

[Ladybird1300]

In the 1828 NSW census her estimated DOB was 1785 and I think this is probably nearer the truth. There was an Elisabeth Collier baptised in 1785 Shoreditch parents William and Ann, I believe had a few daughters, but I'm still not sure.

Amanda

 

[DaveHam9]

The 1828 census more likely to be correct than various convict records.

 

[Ladybird1300]

The 1828 census more likely to be correct than various convict records.

So in that case I have the baptism above or an earlier one in 1781 parents James and Ann, or may be that one is too early??

Amanda

 

[DaveHam9]

Does one of the pay sites have the NSW convict Ident records?

Perhaps the NSW Idents are not as detailed as the VDL ones?

 

[Ladybird1300]

I don't know what they are Dave, but I found this on FMP:

First name(s) ElizthLast name LesurfAge 36Birth year 1777Arrival year 1813Ship name WansteadWhen convicted 1813Sentence 7 yearsOccupation InmateResidence Wallis Pl'NsState New South WalesCountry AustraliaRecord set New South Wales And Tasmania: Settlers And Convicts 1787-1859Category Travel & migrationSubcategory TransportationCollections from Australasia

I don't know what kind of records it is??

 

[DaveHam9]

It's the Settlers and Convicts 1787-1859 summary record.

The ident would include details of native place, physical description, Read/Write, Religion, marital status, ...

I can see why finding the right baptism is an issue. Some errors there. Arrived January 1814. Age is probably way out.

Perhaps that 36 should be 30 ?

 

[gibbo]

Another place has she died in 1807 aged 38

Elizabeth LE' SURF (born Collier), 1769 - 1807
Elizabeth LE' SURF (born Collier) was born on month day 1769, at birth place, to William Collier and Martha Collier (born Draper).
William was born on June 8 1740, in Shoreditch, London, England.
Martha was born on February 6 1735, in London, England.
Elizabeth was baptized on month day 1769, at baptism place.
She had 6 siblings: William James Collier, Joseph Collier and 4 other siblings.
Elizabeth married William LE' SURF on month day 1806, at age 37 at marriage place.
William was born in 1770, in London.
They had one son: William LE' SURF.
Elizabeth passed away on month day 1807, at age 38 at death place.

https://www.myheritage.com/names/elizabeth_le' surf
.

 

[gibbo]

Elizabeth passed away on month day 1807, at age 38 at death place.

I cant find a death for the above.

 

[Ladybird1300]

Another place has she died in 1807 aged 38

Elizabeth LE' SURF (born Collier), 1769 - 1807
Elizabeth LE' SURF (born Collier) was born on month day 1769, at birth place, to William Collier and Martha Collier (born Draper).
William was born on June 8 1740, in Shoreditch, London, England.
Martha was born on February 6 1735, in London, England.
Elizabeth was baptized on month day 1769, at baptism place.
She had 6 siblings: William James Collier, Joseph Collier and 4 other siblings.
Elizabeth married William LE' SURF on month day 1806, at age 37 at marriage place.
William was born in 1770, in London.
They had one son: William LE' SURF.
Elizabeth passed away on month day 1807, at age 38 at death place.

https://www.myheritage.com/names/elizabeth_le' surf
.

Except we now know that is wrong Gibbo, there isn't a death record in London for her. Someone did research on the family many years ago and because the records ran out around that date they assumed she died.
I have a record attached to my tree that says she was the wife of William Lesurf:

NameElizabeth Lesurfe wife of Willm lesurfeVesselWansteadConvicted Date2 Dec 1812Voyage DateAug 1813ColonyNew South WalesPlace of ConvictionMiddlesex, England.

These trees also say William died in 1806, but he actually died in 1842. After Elizabeth was transported he married a Jemima Christiana Bradley nee Williams. Apparently there is a story around that because her first husband Benjamin Bradley died in 1844. She and William had four children. I've tried to alert people, but they don't seem interested so I'm wasting my time.

Amanda

 

[Ladybird1300]

Thanks for looking Dave may be the record will turn up one day and I'll have the information I need. But I am suspecting William and Ann are her parents.

Amanda

 

[Ladybird1300]

Hi Dave,

Can I ask you if Michael Cornelius Parker born 1820 is Elizabeth's son please?? I found a record on Ancestry which says his mother is Mary but there isn't a marriage for Michael Parker snr to a Mary?? But there is one for Elizabeth to Michael in 1815. I'm asking because I can't find anymore records about this everything is a bit disjointed.

Many thanks
Amanda