My Granny's Dad.(Moore)

[p.risboy]

I am not sure where to post this, as I need births, deaths and marriges.
Here is the info I have.

My Grans birth.
Rebecca Moore b.24/9/1874. at 4.Buckingham St. Hodge Lane, Salford. Lancs.

Father - Jacob Aaron Moore b. c1850 Unknown. occ.Joiner.
Mother - Jane Elizabeth Moore (nee.Williams)b.1853. Salford. Lancs.

Marriage of parents.
Jacob and Jane married 9/10/1870 Salford.
Jacob Aaron Moore. Age 19. Bachelor. occ. Soldier. Residence at time. Salford. Fathers name. Jacob Aaron Moore - occ.Labourer.

Jane Elizabeth Williams Age.17. Spinster. occ. ?? Fathers name. John Williams. occ. Packer.

Rebecca Moore Marriage.
Rebecca Moore. aged.21. Spinster. occ.Weaver. Residence at time of marriage, 301 Liverpool St. Salford. Fathers name. Jacob Aaron Moore (Deceased) occ.Joiner.

Questions.
1.- Where was Jacob born, where and when did he die. (Wife Jane and children Rebecca and Walter, are living with her father in 1881 census?)
2.- When and where did Jane Elizabeth die.?
3. - Jacobs parents, any details.?

Have found a Jacob in Chatham, Kent also in Hythe, Kent aged 7. both barracks or army related.

I'm am now out of my depth. Any help gratefully recieved.

Steve.

 

[p.risboy]

I suppose he could have 'legged it' as well.
There are too many variables. I'll put this to bed, and forget about it.

Steve.:'(

 

[benny1982]

Hi Steve

Could Jane's middle name have been missed when she died? Have you found her in the 1891 census?

Here are some possible deaths in the Salford/Rochdale area.

Jane Moore born abt 1855 Died 1886 Rochdale Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Jane Moore born abt 1851 Died 1886 Rochdale Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Jane Moore born abt 1851 Died 1900 Salford Greater Manchester, Lancashire

Ben

 

[benny1982]

Hi Steve

Is this Jacob in 1881?

Jacob Moore, born about 1847, Occupation Joiner, Birthplace Not Known, A Lunatic at the Metropolitan Asylum for Imbeciles.

Ben

 

[benny1982]

Hi

His middle name may not have been Aaron. It may have been Thomas. A Jacob Thomas Moore was born in 1847 in Portsea, Hampshire.

A Jacob Thomas Moore died in 1908 in the Godstone district of Surrey born about 1847.

I found Jacob T Moore in the 1861 census with father Jacob Moore who is a Chelsea Pensioner. Living at Montague Street, Portsea.

Jacob Moore Snr is a widower aged 50, a Chelsea Pensioner (Painter & Glazier) born Portsea
Jacob T Moore, Son, aged 14, a Scholar born Portsea
Albert A Moore, Son aged 11 a Scholar born Guernsey
Frederick F Moore, aged 8, a scholar born Guernsey

Ben

 

[p.risboy]

Hi Steve

Could Jane's middle name have been missed when she died? Have you found her in the 1891 census?

Here are some possible deaths in the Salford/Rochdale area.

Jane Moore born abt 1855 Died 1886 Rochdale Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Jane Moore born abt 1851 Died 1886 Rochdale Greater Manchester, Lancashire
Jane Moore born abt 1851 Died 1900 Salford Greater Manchester, Lancashire

Ben

Not found her later than 1881, living with her Father and children.
Steve.

 

[p.risboy]

Hi

His middle name may not have been Aaron. It may have been Thomas. A Jacob Thomas Moore was born in 1847 in Portsea, Hampshire.

A Jacob Thomas Moore died in 1908 in the Godstone district of Surrey born about 1847.

I found Jacob T Moore in the 1861 census with father Jacob Moore who is a Chelsea Pensioner. Living at Montague Street, Portsea.

Jacob Moore Snr is a widower aged 50, a Chelsea Pensioner (Painter & Glazier) born Portsea
Jacob T Moore, Son, aged 14, a Scholar born Portsea
Albert A Moore, Son aged 11 a Scholar born Guernsey
Frederick F Moore, aged 8, a scholar born Guernsey

Ben

As far as the name goes Benny, Jacob Aaron Moore appears as junior(Soldier) and senior(labourer) on the marriage cert.

Married at St.Simons, Salford. which was demolished 1920's.

Steve.

 

[benny1982]

Hi

The 1881 census states Jane as married. I cannot find Jacob in the 1871 census and if he was a soldier, then he may have been out of the country.

I cannot find any trace of anyone even with the firstnames of Jacob Aaron born 1848-1852. He may have meant to say Thomas as his middle name rather than Aaron when he wed. Or the registrar got the middle name mixed up.

Ben

 

[p.risboy]

Hi

The 1881 census states Jane as married. I cannot find Jacob in the 1871 census and if he was a soldier, then he may have been out of the country.

I cannot find any trace of anyone even with the firstnames of Jacob Aaron born 1848-1852. He may have meant to say Thomas as his middle name rather than Aaron when he wed. Or the registrar got the middle name mixed up.

Ben

On Granny's birth cert. he is named as Jacob Aaron Moore living at 4, Buckingham St. Salford in 1874 occ.Joiner.

Alive in 1874 and deceased(on marriagecert) by 1896.

I think you can see why he's doing my nut in.

Steve.

 

[benny1982]

Hi Steve

The 1881 census says that Jacob Moore in the asylum is a joiner. Jane Moore is back in Salford and is listed as being married. Your Jacob was a joiner.

I cannot find the Jacob Moore born 1847 in Portsea in the 1871 census. It does look like he may be the right one. If he didnt know his birthplace in 1881 he may not have remembered his middle name.

If he is listed as deceased, Rebecca may have thought that he was dead by 1896 if he had been in an asylum for 15 plus years. Or some sort of shame.

The Jacob Thomas Moore is worth a go.

Ben

 

[p.risboy]

Hi Steve

The 1881 census says that Jacob Moore in the asylum is a joiner. Jane Moore is back in Salford and is listed as being married. Your Jacob was a joiner.

I cannot find the Jacob Moore born 1847 in Portsea in the 1871 census. It does look like he may be the right one. If he didnt know his birthplace in 1881 he may not have remembered his middle name.

If he is listed as deceased, Rebecca may have thought that he was dead by 1896 if he had been in an asylum for 15 plus years. Or some sort of shame.

The Jacob Thomas Moore is worth a go.

Ben

So, let me see if I've got this right.
1.- Jane married Jacob(Portsea) in Salford.
2.- They moved back down south whilst he was still a soldier.
3.- He left the army and took up joinery.
4.- Flipped his lid and got committed.
5.- Jane and kids went back to Salford and lived with her dad John Williams.

It all sounds perfectly feasible, and would explain a lot.

Steve.

 

[benny1982]

4.- Flipped his lid and got committed.

Sums it up.

It looks like the mystery is solved. The only abnomaly is the middle name but the Jacob born in 1847 in Portsea had a father called Jacob, was a joiner like your Jacob and the Portsea Jacob is not on the 1871 census. Your Jacob was a soldier. The 1847 born Jacob's father was also once in the Army.

I think I have Jacob in the 1851 census in Guernsey aged 3, with parents Jacob and Maria. Maria was aged 32 and born Ireland. Jacob Snr is a army pensioner.

Ben

 

[tiddy30]

if he was a soldier he could have been fighting in the boer war,have you cheacked with the national archives to see if they have any records?The first boer war was from 1880-1881.

i found this in the national archives...
JACOB MOORE
Born BECCLES, Norfolk
Served in 6th Dragoons
Discharged aged 42
Records of the Royal Chelsea and Kilmainham Hospitals
Covering dates 1796-1819.
This could be him but you would have to check with tna to make sure.
There are a few jacob moore records but this 1 fits the dates,good luck.

 

[p.risboy]

So, Benny and Tiddy. See if I can put this together with what you have said.

1. - Jacob snr. b. c1817. Beccles, Norfolk.
2. - Joined Army.
3. - Married Maria b.c1819 Ireland.
4. - Jacob Jnr. b.1847
5. - Retired from Army. c1857 - Became Joiner/painter/glazier.
6. - Lived in Guernsey 1851
7. - Jacob Jnr. Followed in fathers footsteps. (Army and Joiner)
8. - Jacob Jnr. met and married Jane Williams in 1870


Possibly Jacob Snr. had a middle name of Aaron. Jacob Thomas Aaron Jnr.??

Dropped Aaron as a name.

I am sure I found a J.Moore in Hythe, Essex in a military school aged 7 ? But discarded as I thought too fanciful. IDIOT I AM.
Also Jacob Moore in Chatham, Kent. Barracks.?

Steve.

 

[benny1982]

Hi

The Jacob Snr cannot be the one born in Beccles as in the 1851 census Jacob is born in about 1807 in Portsea, Hampshire.

Ben

 

[p.risboy]

Hi

The Jacob Snr cannot be the one born in Beccles as in the 1851 census Jacob is born in about 1807 in Portsea, Hampshire.

Ben

So, Benny. If I substitute Jacob(Portsea)1807 and keep the remaining scenario, does that make more sense from your experience.

Steve.

 

[benny1982]

Hi Steve

Yes, keep Jacob born 1807 in mind. I think the 1847 one born in Portsea who flipped his lid and got committed is the right one. He does closely match your one. Same occupation, same sort of army career, his absence from Jane in 1881 and Jane saying she is married, similar ages, fathers name Jacob.

Ben

 

[p.risboy]

Hi Steve

Yes, keep Jacob born 1807 in mind. I think the 1847 one born in Portsea who flipped his lid and got committed is the right one. He does closely match your one. Same occupation, same sort of army career, his absence from Jane in 1881 and Jane saying she is married, similar ages, fathers name Jacob.

Ben

Thanks Ben,
I hope this all pans out, it looks very convincing.

Thanks again, Steve.

 

[benny1982]

Hi

Jacob must have been committed in about 1878 to the Imbecile Asylum. Gosh we would not get away with such succinct descrptions nowadays or we'd be up in court

Yet after being scetioned he lived for another 30 years in the asylum. That must have been hard. The next thing to do would be to approach the relevant RO to see if their admission or discharge records survive. This should tell you what address he lived at before being sectioned. If it is a Salford address, then I think you have Jacob.

Try this link

http://library.wellcome.ac.uk/doc_WTL039939.html

Ben

 

[benny1982]

Hi Steve

Here is another link. Their records might be at the London Metropolitan Archives.

http://www.workhouses.org.uk/index.html?MAB-Caterham/MAB-Caterham.shtml

Ben