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Norman F SILVA/SILVIA

DaveHam9

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#1
Norman F SILVA/SILVIA b. 1897 Paddington d. 1963 Ryde ?

15195/1897 SILVIA NORMAN F WILLIAM J JANE S PADDINGTON

(William James SILVA & Jane Sands POWELL)

This may of may not be the death of the same person because the parents as listed don't match - I don't know what the F in the birth reg is for):

16980/1963 SILVA NORMAN FONTES WILLIAM JOSEPH ELIZABETH JANE RYDE

The original family name was da SILVA which became SILVA and then one branch of the family had all the births of the children registered as SILVIA.

Sands Directories: Sydney 1861-1933
Name/Business Name: William Silva
Year: 1895
District: Watson's Bay
Page No: 748

1903 NEW SOUTH WALES Electoral Roll
*** Surname FirstNames State Address Town RollNum Division SubDivision Occupation

F Silva Jane NSW 58 Comber Street Paddington 2955 Wentworth Glenmore Domestic Duties
M Silva William NSW 58 Comber Street Paddington 2956 Wentworth Glenmore Sea Captain

Australian Electoral Rolls, 1901-1936
Name: William James Silva
Gender: Male
Electoral Year: 1936
State: New South Wales
District: Wentworth
Subdistrict: Vaucluse
Jane Sands Silva, 4 Parsley road, Home duties
William James Silva, Parsley Bay road, Master mariner


SOUTH HEAD CEMETERY
NAME: William J. Silva
AGE: 74
DEATH DATE: 16 December 1937
DENOMINATION: General
DETAILS: Section: G, Row: 5, Grave: 195
INSCRIPTION: Capt. Son of above.


I have lots of info on the parents of Norman F born in 1897 but apart from that possible death record I have nothing else on any Norman F SILVA/SILVIA.

Please see what you can find. My branch of the family comes from Portugal but there are two other SILVA families in NSW one from Italy and one from Samoa.

Thanks.

Dave
 

crankypants

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#2
Hi Dave

Have you taken a look at Australian National Archives.

Norman Fontes SILVA b. 1897 Paddington. occupation Dentist.
(next of kin uncle William James SILVA) of Parsley rd, Parsley Bay, via Watson's Bay.

Unable to find this chap throughout in the Electoral Roll ? strange.

cheers
crankypants
 

DaveHam9

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#3
Hello crankypants,

:D oh. I looked in the NAA for his grandfather Joseph and grandmother Susan/Susannah but not for him!

Thank you. Fontes is Portugese so that's enough to say it is the right death. One other researcher on the SANDS family says he died in Ryde.

Uncle?? The birth reg says his father is William J and the ER says William J lived in Parsley Rd. The brothers of William J are Joseph John, John Ephraim & Manuel Antony.

I have lots more queries for the SILVA.

5261/1888 SILVA SUSAN AGE 56 YEARS DIED PADDINGTON WOOLLAHRA

SOUTH HEAD CEMETERY
NAME: Susan Silva
AGE: (Not stated)
DEATH DATE: 17 November 1888
DENOMINATION: General
DETAILS: Section: G, Row: 5, Grave: 195
INSCRIPTION: Wife of Joseph Silva. 56 yrs 6 mths.


SOUTH HEAD CEMETERY
NAME: Joseph Silva
AGE: 67
DEATH DATE: 2 August 1891
DENOMINATION: General
DETAILS: Section: G, Row: 5, Grave: 195
INSCRIPTION: Husband of above.

NSW Naturalisation
SILVA Joseph Western Islands (Azores) 18 Mar 1859 3 1 - [4/1202] 130
SILVA Joseph PORTUGAL 20 Feb 1865 3 62 - [4/1202] 130

Not this one:
NAA Site - Naturalisation Record 1897/F1462
Joseph SILVA born in PORTUGAL arrived in VICTORIA 1862 on the vessel "LOUISIANA" from SAN FRANCISCO. Age 53 in 1897.

Regards,

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#4
Hello crankypants,

Norman's sibling;
Pearl Marie Dorothy married Samuel John McMURRAY in 1920.

Samuel died in 1952 in Mosman and I can't find Pearl's death. She is in the ER for Division of Warringah.

and another sibling;
William Archibald Gladstone married (2nd) Irene Catherine AUSTIN in 1925. They both died in West Ryde. William Gladstone and Irene Catherine SILVIA appear in ER in Division of Parramatta in 1930.

Please see what you can find.

Thanks.

Dave
 

crankypants

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#5
Hi Dave

1930 N.S.W Electoral Roll – Warringah - Mosman
McMURRAY Pearl Marie Dorothy, 21 Glover street, home duties
McMURRAY Samuel John, 21 Glover street, deck hand

1936 N.S.W Electoral Roll – Warringah - Mosman
McMURRAY Pearl Marie Dorothy, 93 Spit road, home duties
McMURRAY Samual John, 93 Spit road, master mariner

1930 N.S.W Electoral Roll – Parramatta – Hornsby
SILVIA Irene Catherine, Peat’s Ferry road, Brooklyn, home duties
SILVIA William Gladstone, Peat’s Ferry road, Brooklyn, mental attnd.

No sign of Pearl?

cheers
cranypants
 

DaveHam9

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#6
Hello crankypants,

Thank you. Yes, no sign of them in 1936 and no sign of Pearl's death in NSW.

SILVIA William Gladstone Death notice 01MAY1979 Death 92 late of West Ryde SMH 05MAY1979
...late of Chatham Rd West Ryde, NSW...husband of Irene Catherine...

Another sibling:

Harold Reginald SILVA/SILVIA b. 1890 Sydney d. ?

married Mar Q 1915 London

Emily GARROD b. Jun Q 1891 London d. ?

I can't find when Emily died but Harold remarried but I don't know when or where.

They had two children:

Harold R b. 1916 Paddington, NSW d. ?

George walter Douglas b. 1918 Woollahra, NSW KIA 1943 Italy

No Surname Rank Service Number Date Of Death Age Regiment/Service Nationality Grave/Memorial Ref. Cemetery/Memorial Name
1 SILVIA, GEORGE WALTER DOUGLAS Warrant Officer Class II 948401 01/11/1943 24 Royal Artillery United Kingdom IV, D, 14. MINTURNO WAR CEMETERY

Casualty Details
Name: SILVIA, George Walter Douglas
Initials: G W D
Nationality: UNITED KINGDOM
Rank: Warrant Officer Class II (B.S.M.)
Regiment/Service: Royal Artillery
Unit Text: 23 Field Regt.
Age: 24
Date of Death: 01/11/1943
Service No: 948401
Awards: M M
Additional information: Son of Harold R. and Emily SILVIA, of CLAPHAM, LONDON
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: IV, D, 14.
Cemetery: MINTURNO WAR CEMETERY

Regards,

Dave
 

crankypants

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#7
Hi Dave

There is one listing but unable to open image.
1919 NSW Sands Directory
SILVA Harold R, Paddington

There is a marriage and a death in New Zealand, what do you think!

MARRIAGE
1929/1232 Violet Myrtle Margaret Heron Harold Reginald Silva

DEATH
1965/29639 Silva Harold Reginald 73Y

cheers
crankypants
 

DaveHam9

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#8
Hello crankypants,

:D

1929/1232 Violet Myrtle Margaret Heron Harold Reginald Silva

Yes, I just found it. I know it's correct because a message in a forum from Harold's grand daughter mentioned her mother's half-brothers Harold & George. She didn't know if they were born in Clapham, England or in Australia.

Pity the NZ BD&M does not give a location.

If Emily died before 1929 then I wonder if she died in NZ. No sign. :confused:

Who is this:

22738/1956 SILVA EMILY LOUISA JOSEPH EMILY RYDE

I don't think that is a SILVA because there is no Joesph SILVA who married an Emily:

Joseph & Susan
Joseph John & Catherine
Joseph George & Alma

This marriage could explain it:
8361/1913 SILVA GEORGE E KEENAN EMILY SYDNEY

I don't have a George E in my tree.

I have nothing on son Harold R after his birth in 1916.

Please see if you can find anything.

Thanks.

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#9
Hello crankypants,

I've looked and can see nothing in Ryerson and no service record and no marriage in NSW for Harold R born 1916 SILVA or SILVIA.

Regards,

Dave
 

crankypants

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Hi Dave

1930 N.S.W Electoral Roll – Martin - Gladesville
SILVA Emily Louisa, Great North Road, Gladesville, home duties
SILVA George Edmond, Great North Road, Gladesville, watchman
SILVA John Ephraim, Great North Road, Gladesville, wharf hand
SILVA John Henry, Great North Road, Gladesville, beltmaker

1936 N.S.W Electoral Roll – Martin - Gladesville
SILVA Emily Louisa, 113 Victoria rd, Gladesville, home duties
SILVA George Edmond, 113 Victoria rd, Gladesville, watchman
SILVA John Ephraim, 113 Victoria rd, Gladesville, wharf hand
SILVA John Henry, 113 Victoria rd, Gladesville, beltmaker

No sign of Harold R SILVA.

cheers
crankypants
 

DaveHam9

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#11
Hello crankypants,

Thank you very much.

John Ephraim b. 1866 Paddington is a brother of the sea capt. William James.

I have this note in my database:

He married Emily Louisa who died in 1956 in Ryde. No marriage found in NSW but they had four children (Walter Raymond d.1962; George Edmond d. 1955; Stanley Robert d. 1974 and Dora Agnes d. 1969).

So that explains Emily Louisa and George Edmond at that address but not John Henry. Perhaps they had more than the four children given this:

3967/1907 SILVIA JOHN H JOHN E LOUISA E HUNTERS HILL

Regards,

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#12
Hello crankypants,

1903 NEW SOUTH WALES Electoral Roll
*** Surname FirstNames State Address Town RollNum Division SubDivision Occupation
M Silva Francis John NSW Cove Street Watson's Bay 456 Wentworth Vaucluse Clerk
F Silva Margaret NSW Cove Street Watson's Bay 459 Wentworth Vaucluse Domestic Duties
F Silva Julia NSW Lighthouse South Head 458 Wentworth Vaucluse Domestic Duties

I don't have any of them in my tree but given the location and the fact that Julia lived in the lighthouse they must be connected some how. I've found this:

5811/1879 SILVA FRANCIS J MATTHEW MARGARET PADDINGTON

which would explain two of the entries however I don't know how Matthew fits in.

This could explain Julia:

2748/1882 SILVA FREDERICK EMANUEL JACINTA JULIA ROSE PADDINGTON

but then I don't know who Frederick is. :confused:

Regards,

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#13
Hello crankypants,

Another sibling of the sea capt:

4657/1870 SILVA MANUEL A JOSEPH SUSANNA PADDINGTON


Roll of Honour
Manuel Antony SILVA
Rank Private [Pte]
Service Number 9769
Unit 1 Field Amb AUSTRALIAN Army Medical Corps
Service Army
Conflict 1914-1918
Date of Death 5 December 1916
Cause of Death Died of sickness
Cemetery or Memorial Details KENT 61 Fort Pitt Military Cemetery
Native place WATSON'S BAY, NSW
War Grave Register Notes SILVA, Pte. Manuel Antony, 9769. 1st Field Amb. AAM Corps. Died of sickness 5th Dec., 1916. Age 46. Son of Joseph and Susannah Union SILVA; husband of Rosa SILVA, of MYALLA, NSW. Native of WATSON'S BAY, NSW 1425.
Source AWM145 Roll of Honour cards, 1914-1918 War, Army


That is the only ref I've found to 'Union' as a middle ? name for Susan. I suspect they married before they arrived in Australia.

Marriage 10/1892 SILVA EMMANUEL A SADLER ROSA SYDNEY

Daughter 3127/1892 SILVA HARRIETT F EMANUEL A ROSA SYDNEY

I can't find a birth or death for Rosa nor a marriage or death for Harriett.


=========
Birth
12981/1868 SADLER ROSANNA PATRICK MARY MUSWELLBROOK


Marriage
6185/1920 WARBURTON FRANK C SILVA ROSA ASHFIELD
6794/1927 JEFFERYS ROBERT SILVA ROSA CHATSWOOD

Deaths
9833/1938 WARBURTON ROSE WALTER CAROLINE NEWCASTLE
21534/1942 JEFFERYS ROSA JOHN ROBERT JANE ELIZABETH PETERSHAM

Dave
 

crankypants

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#14
Hi Dave

This is the only Frederick Henry Emanuel SILVA.

1930 N.S.W Electoral Roll - New England - Inverell
SILVA Amy Evelyn, Swanbrrok road, home duties
SILVA Frederick Henry, Eamanuel, Swanbrook rd, salesman

1936 N.S.W Electoral Roll - Gwydir -Inverell
SILVA Amy Eveline, Oswald street, Inverell, home duties
SILVA Frederick Henry Emanuel, Oswald street, Inverell, salesman
SILVA Violet Millicent, Oswald street, Inverell, clerk

Birth
8052/1883 SILVA FREDERICK H E FREDERICK E JULIA R PADDINGTON
Marriage
9906/1911 SILVA FREDERICK H E KENT AMY E MOSMAN
Death
1791/1942 SILVA FREDERICK HENRY EMANUEL FREDERICK EMANUEL ROSA JULIA KINGSFORD

cheers
crankypants
 

DaveHam9

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#15
Hello crankypants,

Thank you. I'm still stuck. Even knowing his parents does not help me find out how he fits in the tree.

Death:
6974/1929 SILVA FREDERICK E EMANUEL ESTHER ASHFIELD

He may be Joseph's younger brother but I can't tell:

Death 1187/1891 SILVA JOSEPH UNKNOWN UNKNOWN SYDNEY

Regards,

Dave
 

crankypants

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#16
Hi Dave

Was searching the Electoral Roll 1878-1879 for Canterbury and found these four. Coincidence or misspelling?

SILVE Emanuel, Macquarie Light-house, freehold, Watson's Bay Woollahra
SILVE Joseph, Watson's Bay, freehold, Watson's Bay Woollahra
SILVE Matthew, Watson's Bay, freehold, Watson's Bay Woollahra
SILVE George, South Head, residence, South Head

cheers
crankypants
 

DaveHam9

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Hello crankypants,

Thank you very much. I'd say misspelling. Matthew, Joseph and Emanuel and possibly even George could be brothers. It would explain a lot, such as Julia living in the lighthouse and those shown living at the same address in later ER. I'd say they had to be closely related - cousins, uncles, brothers, etc... But I don't know how we can prove it. I don't know when Joseph married Susan or when he/they arrived.

I was thinking of giving the SILVA a rest for a few days. I'll leave Joseph's oldest of four (I only know of four at the moment) sons and his family for another time.

I'll be back in a few hours.

Regards,

Dave
 

crankypants

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#18
Hi Dave

Have included the earlier years of Sands Directory.

1861 N.S.W Sands Directory
SILVA Joseph, pilot service, Watson’s Bay
SILVA Manuel, pilot service, Watson’s Bay
1864
SILVA Joseph, mariner, Bay street, Watson’s Bay
SILVA Matthew, storekeeper, Watson’s Bay
1865 & 1866
SILVA Mat. Grocer, Cove-st, Watson’s Bay
SILVA Joseph, Bay-street, Watson’s Bay
1870
SILVA Emanuel, boatman, Watson’s Bay
SILVA Matthias, provision store, Watson’s Bay
SILVA Joseph, boatman, Watson’s Bay
1875
SILVA Emanuel, asst, Macquarie lt,S.H
SILVA Joseph, boatman, Watson’s Bay
SILVA Matthew, grocer, Watson’s Bay
1876
SILVA Emanl., assistant, Macquarie lighthouse
SILVA Matthew, grocer, Watson’s Bay
SILVA Joseph, boatman, Watson’s Bay

http://news.google.com/newspapers?n...lERAAAAIBAJ&sjid=R5UDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6240,5466642
DEATH Emanuel SILVA 1902 age 102 (he certainly lived to a ripe old age)
3 sons & 1 daughter

http://www.lighthouse.net.au/Lights/NSW/Macquarie/Macquarie.htm
Frederick Emanuel SILVA

http://books.google.com.au/books?id...ffice+directory&lr=&ei=RHP_SYq7HZTSkASg2-ibBA
The 1867 NSW P.O Directory has the men listed as SILVER.

cheers
crankypants
 
Last edited:

DaveHam9

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#19
Hello crankypants,

Thank you very much. Very interesting. It looks as though the family came from the Azores.

SILVE Emanuel, Macquarie Light-house, freehold, Watson's Bay Woollahra
SILVE Joseph, Watson's Bay, freehold, Watson's Bay Woollahra
SILVE Matthew, Watson's Bay, freehold, Watson's Bay Woollahra
SILVE George, South Head, residence, South Head
Popssibly Joseph, Matthew and George are Emanuel's sons.

The marriage of Emanuel's daughter:

1517/1874 TRICKETT EDWARD SILVA MARIA FRANCES ST LEONARDS

I'll return to the SILVA in a few days.

Regards,

Dave
 
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#20
Hi all

I am writing on behalf of my friend Joyce, she is Harold and George's cousin.
We always wondered what happened to Harold Snr. and now we know.

This is what we can add:
Harold reginald came to england as an electrician in 1914 he married Emily Garrod (my aunt) in 1915 and set sail for australia where they had two sons Harold james and George w d silvia.
Emily and her two sons came back to England, however I am unsure when, as i can't find an incoming passanger list for them although it was before WW2.
Emily died in worthing West Sussex england in 1983 aged 93. Harold James died in West Sussex in 1989 age 73. he married in Wandsworth London in 1948.
I don't know why Harold Reginald didn't come back with Emily or whether they divorced that is still a mystery.
However thanks to you I now know he remarried and died in Australia.

thanks
 

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