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PHEBE (Burgin) but what's her Maiden Name

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#1
I have a Phebe married to George Burgin in the area of St Pancras (Somers Town) probably around 1852 but cannot find the marriage! So we don't have her surname.
A daughter (also Phebe) was born 09 May 1853 and Baptized 10 May 1853 at Bloomsbury St George (London). Her Baptism was when she was a day old - perhaps she was not expected to live (?) - she does not show up on any Census records, but I don't find a death either!
A son, George William or William George Burgin, (depending on the source - G W on the Baptismal Record but W G on his Birth Certificate), was born 07 Oct 1855 at 78 Chalton Street, Somers Town (St Pancras) and Baptized on 27 Oct 1855 at St Pancras Old Church. I purchased a copy of the Birth Certificate for "William George Burgin" thinking I would find his mother's maiden name on it - well, it is there but, so far, has defeated the efforts of many to decipher it! It starts with an 'R' but then what?
Would love to get an answer to this puzzle!
Jan
 

gibbo

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#2
Hi Jan,

I have moved your thread to the Genealogy Beginners Help :)

Can you attach the part of the certificate where the mother's name is? Someone on here might be able to make out what it says.
 

horse

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#4
George is traceable from birth to 1851 as Burgen, then he reappears in 1871 as Burgin with Phoebe and the 2 boys...

Not seeing a marriage to a Phoebe. George was unm. in 1851... :rolleyes:
 

gibbo

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#7
Name: George William Burgin
Christening Date: 27 Oct 1855
Christening Place: OLD CHURCH,SAINT PANCRAS,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 07 Oct 1855
Father's Name: George Burgin
Mother's Name: Phoebe

Name: James Burgin
Christening Date: 03 Jun 1858
Christening Place: OLD CHURCH,SAINT PANCRAS,LONDON,ENGLAND
Birth Date: 15 May 1858
Father's Name: George Burgin
Mother's Name: Phoebe

I wonder if mother's maiden name on James's birth cert. would be clear enough to read.

Maybe the birth reg for the above James :confused:

Births Sep 1858 (>99%)
Burgin James George Pancras 1b 98
 
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#9
1861 they have 3 boys

RG9-109-92-32 possible as Burgess

If I have the right records Phebe would be 39 when George was born and 43 for William She died 1897 aged 79. I am wondering if she may have been married before, but I can't see anything

dave
 

horse

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#10
1861 they have 3 boys

RG9-109-92-32 possible as Burgess

If I have the right records Phebe would be 39 when George was born and 43 for William She died 1897 aged 79. I am wondering if she may have been married before, but I can't see anything

dave
That's always a possibility, Dave... and probably the most likely scenario.. :rolleyes:
 

horse

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#14
Geoff this is probably a long shot but can they be picked up together in the 1851 census?
No, this is George...

Name: Geo Burgen
Born abt 1815 Erith, Kent
Occ: Cabman

Civil Parish: St Pancras
Ecclesiastical parish: Somers Town
County: Middlesex
RD: Pancras
Sub-RD: Somers Town
ED: 10
HO107; Piece: 1496; Folio: 446; Page: 68

Geo Burgen 36
 

gibbo

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#15
He was like a taxi driver:eek: I didnt think they had them back then but they did:biggrin:

Cab Driver / Cabbie / Cabman Driver of a horse-drawn passenger vehicle for hire. The first two are still in current use for a taxi driver.

I'll be back shortly.
 

horse

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#16
He was like a taxi driver:eek: I didnt think they had them back then but they did:biggrin:

Cab Driver / Cabbie / Cabman Driver of a horse-drawn passenger vehicle for hire. The first two are still in current use for a taxi driver.

I'll be back shortly.
Yep, I don't think the Morgan's were around then :biggrin:
 
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#17
WOW! You people are prompt with your research and help. I have applied for another certificate, in hopes of getting a name I can read!

MEANWHILE, I have a thread of my very own running here: It appears that Phoebe/Phebe was surnamed ROUW (father's name Theophilus Rouw) (there were several in and around London) and that may well be what that first certificate says.
In 2Q 1848, a Phoebe Rouw married William Fewell at St Pancras Old Church (IGI Batch M04793). That seemed helpful - BUT then I found her as Phoebe FUEL, a widow, on the 1851, living at 26 Little Guildford Street, Bloomsbury, with two sons who were named Frederick (8) born 2Q 1839 and Augustus (6) born 3Q 1844, surname: BEST. Sure enough, William FUIL had died in 1Q 1850in St Pancras. BUT now I have to find Daddy BEST and a possible earlier marriage producing the two boys!
Backtracking, I found Phoebe Best on the 1841 Census at Eagle Street, Holborn, with Frederick aged 1 year.
There is the death of Augustus Best (the son) in 1871 at age 26 and I rather think the Daddy was another Augustus who died in 1843 (before or after Augustus the son was conceived?)

Obviously, I have more work to do!! The lady was busy, it seems!! And a little indiscriminate with her use of surnames, since it seems when registering her later children, with George Burgin, she reverted to Rouw.
I am in Canada and it's after midnight - so I will let the ancestors rest for a while and look forward to more interesting help with your next postings!
Thank you so much - Janice
 
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#18
Fellow Forumites,
I think I have Phoebe/Phebe. The search was long and hard and involved just about every Search site out there! Briefly, I believe she was Phoebe ROUW. When I came across that name, it seemed to make the name on the Birth Certificate clearer - however, there is another certificate on its way to double-check. The name ROUW is transcribed many ways (Rowe, mostly), always helpful! Here goes:

Theophilus ROUW marr. Mary Goodinge 14 May 1801 St Martin in the Field
Several children, Phoebe not listed but her father was named on her Marriage Record.
In 1841 a Phoebe BEST and child Frederick live in Holborn. Frederick BEST (Sr) is in Prison in Clerkenwell at that time.

Baptism of Frederick BEST, parents Frederick and Phoebe BEST, at Holy Trinity, Grey's Inn. Father is a Cab Driver. Date is 1842 but possible held up till Dad got out of jail!

Baptism of Augustus BEST, parents as above, same Church. Date 1844.

Death of Frederick Augustus BEST 3Q 1847 St Giles. (The Father of above)

Marriage in 1848 of Phoebe ROUW to William FEWELL at St Pancras. They are both shown as single. (Maybe she never was Mrs Best, legally). This is where her father is named (but deceased). Wm Fewell is a Cab Proprietor.

Death in 1850 of William FUIL (Fewell) in St Pancras.

Census 1851: Phoebe FUEL(Fewell) age 34 Widow Charwoman born St Pancras
Frederick BEST age 8 Son born Bloomsbury
Augustus BEST age 6 Son born Bloomsbury
Address: Little Guildford St, St George, Bloomsbury

There are other ROUWs on this census, born Marylebone & Holborn.

The next search is to find the marriage of George BURGIN to Phoebe/Phebe - will it be under FEWELL, BEST or ROUW?? Although not perfect, my conclusions seem to hold together. Phoebe stuck with the Hackney Cab business, it seems, as George BURGIN was also a Hackney Cab Driver! George and Phoebe lived from about 1854 on, at 63 Chalton Street, Pancras and she was still there after George died, until at least the 1891 Census. She died in the St Pancras Workhouse on 31 Dec 1896.

Would still like to find her Birth Record and Marriage (to George Burgin) Record. I'll watch this Forum in hopes of a break-through!
Thanks for the ideas you all posted to help me out,
Janice
 

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