POTTS family

[DaveHam9]

Hello dave,

Please see if you can help gibbo and myself sort this family out for Michelle.

Robert POTTS b. abt 1810 possibly England - lace ? manufacturer, draper
spouse Ann(ie) or Mary Ann ??

Children in rough order:

George Frederick - eldest son
Eliza Ann - eldest daughter but might be the eldest of all
Charles - 2nd son
Annie Gee b. abt 1835

Probably not in 1851 as there is a marriage in Australia in 1852.

Please see if you can find the family in 1841 - try Nottingham first then London.

Thanks.

Regards,

Dave

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
this is what I've found

1841
FISH, John M 72 1769
FISH, Jane F 66 1775
POTTS, Eliza F 12 1829 Nottinghamshire
POTTS, Ann F 8 1833 Nottinghamshire
JAMES, William M 7 1834 Nottinghamshire
JAMES, Martha F 5 1836 Nottinghamshire

HO107 Piece:856 Book/Folio:4/5 Page:3

Civil Parish: Basford
Address: Bagthorpe, Basford Nottinghamshire
-------------------

1851 England Census

Name: Annie Gil Potts
Age: 18
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1833
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Robert Potts
Mother's name: Mary Ann Potts
Gender: F (Female)
Where born: Nottingham, Nottinghamshire, England

Civil parish: Liverpool
Town: Liverpool
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St George
ED, institution, or vessel: 1c

Piece: 2180 Folio: 111 Page: 14

Robert Potts 41 Nottingham Hosier
Mary Ann Potts 36 Coventry
Eliza Potts 21 Nottingham
Annie Gil Potts 18 Nottingham
Robert Arthur Potts 7 Nottingham
William Henry Potts 2 Nottingham

There is a big gap between Martha 1836 and Robert 1844 Where are the parents?
dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello dave,

We now have the results of a death look up in Victoria for the youngest son who was born in 1859. We now know his mother's name.

I'm trying to break the news to you gently.

Mary Ann IVENS but they didn't marry until 1843 in London. So we have two different POTTS families with father = Robert and mother = Ann probably.

We know of only two daughters for sure:

Annie Gee b. abt 1835 and her sister Eliza Ann b. ?

The Nottingham connection is still there but the occupation of Robert is now uncertain.



Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello dave,

Thank you very much.

This family is driving us crazy.

I suppose it's possible Annie Gee and her sister Eliza Ann arrived in Australia in 1851. Annie married in 1852.

I suppose it's possible they went to Australia and then back to England by 1851 census and then back to Australia with the children later in 1851.

There is references in newspapers here of Robert and others from Nottingham working in a drapers shop in Melbourne.

Now to find them in shipping records. EDIT: The unassisted to Victoria Index starts in 1852.

We still have a George Frederick POTTS to find.

The next two questions: Is that 1843 marriage the right one or a totally different Robert & Mary Ann POTTS family that also went to Australia?

If it's the right one there should be a son George Frederick.

If it's the right marriage then some children were born before 1843.

Regards,

Dave

 

[gibbo]

I think the census Davelambert found is a good chance they are the ones we are looking for. The census in 1851 was taken on 30 March 1851, so if they left soon after they could have arrived in Australia the same year.

As for the parents marriage date could it be possible they had kids beforehand and then married

It was just strange the marriage announcement in the paper said Annie Gee's father was Robert and then her death notice in the newspaper said the same, father as Robert but her death cert. says father as George Frederick Potts.

Thanks Dave for looking it up for us.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello dave,

Some of the ages would have to be a bit out for it to fit. Mary Ann 36 in 1851 and Eliza born in 1829.

There are lots of ref to the middle name being Gee. Some have her father as Robert and others her father as George Frederick. Some have George as a brother.

Regards,

Dave

 

[gibbo]

Im throwing my arms in the air at the moment

 

[michelle28]

My gosh...what a complicated family I have :'(

I went through some of my old paperwork and found some information I cant believe I have overlooked.

Eliza Ann Potts arrived in Jan 1852 aboard The Eagle aged 21
Annie Potts also arrived on the same ship, her age is given as 19.
Also noted Robert Potts arrived on the Eagle 4 years later in Oct 1856 aged A (adult). All the above came out Unassissted.

If Annie was born in 1835 then she would only be 17 years old in 1852. I'm thinking maybe her father would not give his permission for her to marry (she would have need consent)
I believe she was born in 1835 as it matches her age as being 31 when their son Arthur Ernest Brown was born in 1866.
Could it be she ran away to Australia to marry Thomas, forever disowned her father and pretended her brother was her father

 

[DaveHam9]

The 19 in 1852 would fit with the 1833 in the census.

If Annie went to the trouble of pretending her brother was her father for the informant to state such on her death certificate why is it that the death notice says Robert?

 

[gibbo]

Maybe the informant of death didnt know fathers name therefore put her brother's name Or maybe the informant just plain made a error if he didnt understand the paperwork

 

[michelle28]

There is also some kind of connection with William James who is also listed as the witness on Annie and Thomas marriage, except his name is written as James Williams
1841

POTTS, Eliza F 12 1829 Nottinghamshire
POTTS, Ann F 8 1833 Nottinghamshire
JAMES, William M 7 1834 Nottinghamshire

Could they be cousins ?

 

[DaveHam9]

If Louis Edwin is the youngest son and he was born about 1859 and no birth registered in Victoria then if his father Robert arrived in 1856 what about his mother Mary Ann (nee IVENS).

When did George Frederick arrive? When was he born?

Vic Electoral Roll
George Frederick Potts, gender, 1856, Victoria, Melbourne, city

George had to be 21 and over to be on the roll.


Did the other two sons die young or stay in England?



Curious but not that uncommon name.

JAMES WILLIAM 31 MAY 1853 EAGLE B 038 008

 

[gibbo]

Possible death for Robert in Vic Australia. Age fits in with the census Davelambert found for us.

The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848-1954)
Saturday 13 March 1875

POTTS. -On the 10th inst, at Kew, Robert Potts, late
of Nottingham, aged 65.




Been a aussie death cert. it would/should give a list of names of his kids.

 

[DaveHam9]

Mary Ann IVINS c. 10 Jan 1816 Saint Michael, Coventry, Warwick
- William & Mary

 

[DaveHam9]

I can't find the parents of William JAMES but the parents of Martha seem to be a Jacob JAMES & Jane.

Looks as though their first child was Mary c. 14 Jun 1829 Mansfield, Nottingham. They had several children all baptised at Mansfield.

I can't find the marriage of Jacob & Jane.


Curious:

George Frederick POTTS c. 24 Aug 1831 Radford, Nottingham
Robert Alfred POTTS c. 24 Aug 1831 Radford, Nottingham
- Robert & Susanna

 

[michelle28]

Sorry DaveHam9, I'm getting a bit confused. Can you confirm if I am understanding this correctly.

Annie Gee Potts - Parents are Robert Potts and Mary Ann (nee McIvens)
Mary Ann parents were William and Mary McIvens
George Frederick Potts was really Annies brother
Robert Alfred POTTS parents were Robert and Susanna

I understand these are only possible or do you think it is pretty much
confirmed ?

 

[DaveHam9]

Sorry DaveHam9, I'm getting a bit confused. Can you confirm if I am understanding this correctly.

Annie Gee Potts - Parents are Robert Potts and Mary Ann (nee McIvens)
Mary Ann parents were William and Mary McIvens
George Frederick Potts was really Annies brother
Robert Alfred POTTS parents were Robert and Susanna

I understand these are only possible or do you think it is pretty much
confirmed ?

Hello Michelle,

These two seem to be correct but it therefore means they had children before they actually married.

Annie Gee Potts - Parents are Robert Potts and Mary Ann (nee IVENS/IVINS)
Mary Ann parents were William and Mary IVENS

Robert POTTS & Mary Ann IVENS
Marriage 9 Apr 1843 Old Church, Saint Pancras, London, England
Batch: M047932

I said 'curious' because the Electoral Roll entry for George Frederick means he had to be 21 or over so born 1835 or earlier. The only one I've found born anywhere in England is the one baptised the same day as a Robert Alfred - both with parents listed (an extracted not submitted record) as Robert & Susanna.

Several possibilities. This George Frederick is a different one or Susanna is Robert's 1st spouse or ...

===

I found the 5 FISH children of John & Jane and found all the marriages and none married a POTTS or a JAMES. I can't see a POTTS & JAMES marriage so I can't say if they are cousins or related in any way or to FISH.

Regards,

Dave

 

[michelle28]

No worries, thanks for clearing it up

 

[DaveHam9]

A Robert POTTS married a Susan DAY
25 Dec 1827 Newark Upon Trent, Nottingham

I will have to check the children of that marriage. Seems only the two I listed baptised the same day. Don't know if they were twins.

I will also have to refresh my memory re what we know in Australia of George Frederick.

The Argus (Melbourne, Vic. : 1848-1954) - Tuesday 8 May 1855
Marriages
On the 7th inst., at St. Paul's, by the Rev. S. L. Chase, George Frederick, eldest son of Robert Potts, Esq., of Stanworth House, Clapham-road, Islington, to Augusta Alice Victoria, second daughter of Mr. Joshua Addis, of Phillipston, and late of the Corn Exchange, London.

There is a big gap between Martha 1836 and Robert 1844 Where are the parents?

We need to find Robert senior in 1841. I think he will be without spouse. I think I can explain the gap.

 

[DaveHam9]

Do we have a death for George Frederick?



name: Robert Potts
event: Census
event date: 1841
gender: Male
age: 31
birthplace: Nottinghamshire
record type: Household
registration district: Nottingham
sub-district: St Ann
civil parish: St Mary
county: Nottinghamshire