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Pre census ancestor movements.

benny1982

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#1
We know the feeling, the best time to track movements of ancestors from county to county is to look at the 1851-1911 census, the 1841 gives whether born in county or not but have any of you managed to trace movements from county to county before census eras? I have been able to with not so common surnames and some of the ways to do it was wills and settlement certs/examinations.

Several of my Suffolk rellies ended up in Foulness, Essex, one moved there in about 1750 and another in about 1795, he died in 1832. To back this up, I have come across wills which have been able to prove this and rare surnames.

Take my ancestor Dennis Helsdon, he wed in Stepney, London in 1784, he died in 1798 in Bethnal Green, no age mentioned at burial, his childrens baptisms 1784-1797 say he was a weaver.

I found the only likely baptism was of a Dennis Helsdon in 1756 in Norwich, Norfolk. I studied his siblings, one was a Rebecca Helsdon born 1763, a Rebecca Helsdon wed in London in 1787 and a Dennis Helsdon was a witness, the signatures matched the signature of my Dennis Helsdon's 1784 marriage. I found Rebecca's death in 1816 and it pointed to a 1763 birth. The 1756 Dennis born in Norwich also had a brother Benjamin born 1761, and a Benj Helsdon wed in 1785 in Stepney. Dennis had a brother Henry who wed in Norwich in 1798, but he said he was of St Luke, London, and he returned to Norwich and died in 1855.

I believe my Elizabeth Scudder who wed in 1763 in Benfleet, Essex is probably the one born in 1743 in Sutton At Hone, Kent. She had a brother John and a brother Edward and a John Scudder was buried in 1806 in Benfleet aged 72. An Edward Scudder died there in 1798.
 

ptjw7

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#2
Tracing relatives prior to the Census is a bit of a challenge.

Several of mine appear as if from nowhere and then persistently say they were born in the village but no trace of them!

I am beginning to suspect that they didn't know where they were from themselves - just part of the game as it were!

peter
 

emeltee

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#3
Who says our ancestors didn't move about. I have one who was born in Dover in 1764, married in River in Kent in 1792, had a son in Buckland, Kent in 1793, had another son born 1802 although I don't know where but he was baptised in Hemel Hempstead, Herts in 1807. I'm fairly sure that there was another son born c 1800 but can't find a birth and the family finally ended up in Durham. Unfortunately the father, the mother and the son with the missing birth all died before the 1851 Census so I have no idea of where they were born apart from the father. I am sure that there were more children from the marriage but cannot confirm this as any births/baptisms I can find for children of Francis and Mary King are all over the place. His trade was a papermaker and I think he moved to where the work was, particularly after the introduction of machinery during the industrial revolution.

Emeltee
 

benny1982

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#4
Never underestimate how people moved about in the old days. Even back in 1750 you wonder how many people living in, say, Suffolk were born in another county.

I have a Scottish ancestor who died in 1815, John Stewart. He lived in Co Durham and his youngest child was born in 1803, and he had a son born in 1800, the extra info in the Dade Registers gave his native place as Selkirk in Scotland.
 

p.risboy

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#5
On a personal basis, the further away my relatives move, the more information I require. That even extends the further back I go, if they stay in the same area.
If I cannot find all the confirmation I set myself, then the line is on hold until the information is forthcoming or found. I have enough brickwalls to create a barrier between Canada and the USA.:rolleyes::biggrin:''

My main problem is, there are so many Thomas's, William's, Johns, and Joseph's etc. all born/married/died, within the same time frame and village, and being buried without ages being given. And their spouses christian name of Mary or Elizabeth. Most without Wills, and some not naming children in them.
The naming sequence of children, is never consistent throughout the family line.

If someone can tell me, how many ships sailed to America, pre 1700, I would be obliged. What port, when, and who traveled and where alighted. Not saying they traveled there, but they may as well have done, as they can't be found in the UK, with any degree of certainty.

Oh well, that's family history for you.:biggrin:


Steve.:)
 

Ladybird1300

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#6
Yes William Rudman was born in Westwood Wiltshire 1783 and married Mary Odell in Norwich in 1810. Their eldest daughter was born in Norwich the following year, but I can't find a death for her either in Wiltshire or in Norwich.

Then there seems to be a gap until their next daughter was born in Wiltshire in 1815. I'm sure there must have been other children before this, but I haven't found anything.

William died after the 1841 census, but luckily Mary was in the next two which had her born in Norwich and to confirm it their granddaughter was named Gertrude Odell Rudman. That was the icing on the cake.

I may have another one, but I need more information to confirm it.

Amanda
 

benny1982

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#7
Yes, many of my ancestors were called Thomas, William, John, James and Joseph. And the women tended to be Mary, Elizabeth, Sarah or Ann. Like you p.risboy I put info on hold and I have several candidates to claim as my ancestor but I like to try and verify and look for any further info to confirm it.

I think if people moved around a lot, it can be harder to trace their place of origin. London had a lot of people from other areas living there who died before the census era.
 

emeltee

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#8
Don't you just hate it when you find a birth for a missing ancestor and then spot another with the same name born in the same place within a couple of years of the first one. Then you find another!

As I may have said before, my tree was a pain when I started as my paternal grandmother was a Smith and she went and married a Smith. That's two different Smith families to look for and they all seem to be called John or William and Mary or Mary Ellen!

Emeltee
 

benny1982

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#9
You never know where your research may take you. You could find a ancestor born in 1780 in Gloucestershire and find his parents married in Cumbria.

I found a thread I posted on this subject a few years back, giving examples of ancestor movements before censi and BMD registers. The William Musgrave one did spend time in America. When I originally posted it I was still working on whether he was there.

http://www.forum.familyhistory.uk.com/showthread.php?t=17614
 

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