Researching Joseph Barnes

[sandra]

Hi I'm trying to research my Great Great Grandfather Joseph Samuel Barnes. Who was born in London 1824, also his brother John born 1812. John married Elizabeth King Ellen in 1833. And had a son Thomas Alfred Barnes born 1836 Baptised 1837 at St. Dunstan's Stepney. England. Their parents were Joseph & Elizabeth Barnes nee Pickering. I have no information on the parents other than them being mention on John's Death Cert. I believe the father's occupation was a Brewer.
If anyone can help with information on this family it would be appreciated


Sandra

 

[Smee]

Hi Sandra

I will have a quick look up in the English index fiches we have at the local library and see if anything is mentioned....can you tell me what part of London they lived, I know there are fiches for London, however the family might just come under one of the other counties.

If there is anything int he London ones i will let you know what i find or don't find.

Happy hunting

Smee

 

[sandra]

Hi Smee,
Thanks for your reply. John's Death Cert only said London, but the IGI Ind. Record Said born 27 Jun 1812 Bletsoe, Bedford. Father Joseph Barnes & Mother Elizabeth Pickering. I had that searched & they couldn't find any record. Another IGI said Cornwall.
Also in the www.parishregister.com I found a Joseph Samuel Barnes. Father Joseph Barnes Mother Elizabeth. Father's Occupation Brewer's Servant. Address: Tarling Street, St. George in the East. Source Ref: X097/238

I don't know if this will be any help. But thanks anyway.

sandra

 

[Smee]

Hi Sandra

I haven't yet found Samuels birth in the London area so i assume that he was born elsewhere, so thanks for the up date. However i did find John Barnes, who married Elizabeth King Ellen on 14/07/1833 at St Antholin, Budge Row, London.

Their son Thomas Alfred Barnes also showed up in London, i found his christening record on 12/11/1837 at St Dunstan, Stepney. I wasn't sure if you had the dates.

I will keep looking for you in those other areas that you mentioned and see what happens, i might only get dates and places of birth/christening,marriage or death so i do hope this will help you..

Happy hunting

Smee

 

[sandra]

Hi Smee,

Yes I have the dates for Thomas, also John's Wedding. But am still searching for anything on Joseph. That Paish Register record I found on Joseph, do you happen to know how you get further information on that?

Regards
Sandra

 

[Smee]

Hi Sandra

Sorry i have not replied, i seemed to have knocked down a big brickwall for my father in laws family with help form here and a few other places.

Not sure how you go about getting more information from parish records. Do you get electrol rolls on fiche at your local library? There again it might be too early for that........hummmmmm..i will have to have a think, tell me what you got off the parish reord and i will go a hunting again.

Smee

 

[sandra]

Hi Smee,
The only information I have is what I said on the message on the 28th Nov. Untill I can research further at the Library I think its a Brick Wall for me.
Thanks anyway.

Sandra

 

[Smee]

Hi Sandra

Still had no luck with the search, i am sure he will surface eventually, i will keep my eyes open when i am researching in London areas.

Anyway have a great christmas and new year,;D

Smee

 

[Smee]

Hi Sandra

Still had no luck with my search for you, i am sure he will surface eventually, i will keep my eyes open when i am researching in London areas.

Anyway have a great christmas and new year,;D

Smee

 

[daune]

Sandra from Narara, Nov., 2006...I am also researching the Joseph Barnes Family History for the Barnes Family near Wollongong but on a different branch..
Being Joseph and Elizabeth..John 1812 and Elizabeth Ellen King ..Thomas Alfred 1836 and Isabella STinson ..Arthur E 1877 and Winifred Mather..Arthur K 1911 and Irene V Whereat..Michael and Penelope...Peter and SAndra......If you would like previous history of John Barnes 1812 please let me know...If you know the name of the ship John and Elizabeth and 2 boys arrived on I would be pleased to know ..They had 6 children that I know of but the last four were born in Australia.. I feel very fortunate to have found this site and feel I may be able to more readily find lost ancestors in future....Best Wishes to ALL... Daune

 

[sandra]

Hi Daune,
I sort of lost touch with this sight and missed your message.
John Barnes and Elizabeth King Ellen with their children. Arrived in Sydney in 1841 on the "Abbotsford"
I would like any information you have on John Barnes 1812.

Regards
Sandra

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Sandra & Daune,

I have John in my tree too. I also had no infomation about the vessel but I had this which may or may not be correct:

"Arrived with sister Susannah, brother Joseph and father Joseph"

I also had them arriving with only one child, son Thomas born 17 Apr 1836 somewhere in Middlesex?

I hope now to be able to fill in some gaps.

Regards,

Dave

 

[sandra]

Hi Dave,
Thank you for replying. Would you be able to tell me where you obtained the information, that brother Joseph, sister Susannah and father Joseph arrived with John? I haven't been able to find any information regarding them arriving in Australia.
The ship was the barque "Abbotsford" Departed London 26th Nov 1840 and Arrived Sydney 5th April 1841. Stating Mr Barnes and family were passengers.
Thomas Alfred Barnes Born17 April 1836.
Baptised 12 Nov, 1837. St. Dunstan's Stepney. England. Died 20 Oct, 1902 Murrumburrah. NSW Buried. Murrumburrah.
Other Children are John Frederick Barnes Born 26 Sep, 1837
Elizabeth Jane Born 9 Jan, 1839
Mary Ellen Barnes Born 9 Jan, 1839 (Twins )
George Robert Barnes Born 31 Jan, 1840 Born Stepney.
William John Barnes Born 25 Mar, 1842. Sydney.
Edward Prior Barnes Born 14 May 1844. Ashfield
Elizabeth Mary Marian Barnes Born 30 Jun, 1846.
Not sure if you have this information but in 1841 John's family settled near Yass on a small Sheep Station, for a few years before moving back to Sydney, settling on the Parramatta River, taking up fruit-growing and agriculture. In the 1850's they moved to Murrumburrah and established general merchandising stores there and at Cootamundra.
Any information you would like to share with me, on Joseph, Susannah and their father would be most welcome.
Regards
Sandra

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Sandra,

It's about 15 months since I looked at the BARNES family. I've been busy working on two sets of GGG grand parents - ANGEL and BARRACLOUGH.

I doubt that everything I have is correct. And, I still have some gaps. I'll give you what I have and we can compare.

I don't have the source of that comment about brother and sister and father also being with John. There is conflicting data including stuff on WorldConnect trees. The name John BARNES is so common that I'm sure some researchers have picked up the wrong one - eg. the one with the Cornwall connections.

A note I have for Elizabeth King ELLEN says "6 children born in England and 3 went to Australia."

The John BARNES who married Elizabeth King ELLEN has what middle name and what parents? I have seen two different versions - one saying his middle name is Frederick and that he was born in Cornwall and one with no middle name and born in Bedford. One says his mother is Elizabeth PICKERING and one says it is Ann.
------------------------
Example of problems:

John Frederick BARNES
b. 26 Sep 1837 Privately submitted IGI John & Elizabeth Ellen King - where is the proof of this birth?

c. 12 Nov 1837 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London, England John & Elizabeth King Batch: C055763

His birth is not in FreeBMD for Middlesex. Did he die in 1915 in Hurstville?
--------------------------
Elizabeth Jane BARNES ??
b. 20 Sep 1836 c. 3 Sep 1837 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone, London, England
John & Elizabeth Batch: C035248


If Elizabeth Jane and Mary Ellen were born on 9 Jan 1839 where are their entries in the CR Index?
-----------------
George Robert born Stepney ?
b. 31 Jan 1840 , England John & Elizabeth Ellen King Privately submitted IGI

Birth Reg# V18407324 45C/1840 BARNES GEORGE R JOHN ELIZABETH K

Would they baptise him on arrival in Sydney or was he born in NSW? I can't find an entry in FreeBMD. If they arrived on 5 Apr 1841 how can that reg be dated 1840?
------------
The marriage for Susannah also points to an arrival before 1840.

Marriage Reg# V18371534 21/1837 NICHOLS GEORGE R BARNES SUSANNAH E CJ= St. James' CofE, King St Sydney

That's 1837 and before the 'Abbotsford' in 1841. The passenger list just says 'Mr Barnes and family' - has anyone looked at the reel and found the names and the family members? There are an enormous number of BARNES.

Even Thomas Alfred appears as Thomas Albert in places. One says he was born in Padstow, Cornwall and another in Stepney, Middlesex.

Marriage Reg# 3228/1866 BARNES THOMAS ALBERT STINSON ISABELLA WAGGA WAGGA

Or is this a totally different person?

Marriage Reg# V1848351 33B/1848 BARNES JOSEPH STINSON ELIZABETH J MI= CofE Gunning/Yass

Which Joseph is that? Is that the Joseph brother of John and Susannah? Some say his middle name is Samuel.

Regards,

Dave

 

[daune]

sandra and dave re John Barnes 1812 Bedford Bedfordshire UK died 1863 shot by Bushranger John Omeally at Wollenbeen, Burrangong NSW send your address to Daune PO Box 50 Marrickville NSW 2204 and I will post free of charge all I have ......I am now busy researching all the extra info you both have given .....daune

 

[daune]

Hello to Sandra and Dave....re John Barnes 1912 born Bedford, Bedfordshire UK
died 1863 at Wollenbeen, Burrangong NSW....shot by Bushranger John O'Meally.....married Elizabeth Ellen King 1833...St Antholin, Budge Row, London UK....when was she born? died 1886 Cootamundra.. parents Thomas and mary.....Please send your address to Daune PO box 50 Marrickville NSW 2204 and I will post all I have FREE....Cheers, Daune

 

[sandra]

Hi Dave,
The John Barnes that married Elizabeth King Ellen. I have his Death Cert. He has no second name mentioned. Father is Joseph Barnes Mother Elizabeth Pickering. IGI Records Has John Barnes Born 27th June 1812. Bletsoe, Bedford. England. Parents Joseph Barnes & Elizabeth Pickering. Also his marriage to Elizabeth King Ellen. On the 14 Jul 1833. at Saint Antholin Budge Row. London. England.
My information for John's children came from Barbara Carmichael's Book The Stinsons of North Berry Jerry.
BDM. New South Wales.
George R. Barnes. Born 1840 (Reg & Baptised. Information from Barbara Carmichael)
William J. Barnes Born 1842 (William Died at Glebe. NSW 8949/1926)
Edward T (Should be P) Born 1844 (Edward died at Cootamundra. NSW 8664/1900)
Elizabeth M.M. Born 1846
Thomas Alfred. Died at Murrumburrah. NSW 14784/1902 I have his death Cert.
Thomas's Wedding Cert. has his name asThomas Albert. He is mentioned in the Insolvency Record that I have for Joseph Samuel Barnes as Thomas Alfred Barnes.
I have a copy of Joseph's Insolvent Index. Number 14939 Joseph Samuel Barnes. From the State Records NSW. KINGSWOOD.
Joseph Samuel is my gg grandfather.
The Marriage of Joseph Barnes and Elizabeth Jane Stinson ( I have the Cert.) Married in the Parish of Yass in the County of Murry.
He is John's brother. Sister Susannah Eliza Born 3 Dec 1815 in Bletsoe (From the Bishop's Transcripts for Bletsoe 1602-1861) There is also another sister Elizabeth Born c 1810 who married a William Arnold. (I have no Record of this.) Information supplied by a Fred & Heather Allsopp.
I also found an old message on boards.ancestry.com.au posted 8 May 2001. Saying Essie Luckett was trying to locate birth details for her gg grandmother, Sussana Eliza Barnes who she believed was born in Bletsoe, Bedfordshire. UK in 1816. She thinks Sussana's father's name was Joseph and that he was a brewer and that her mother was Elizabeth Pickering.
I have Sussanah's Marriage Cert, She married George Robert Nichols. 16 Dec, 1837 Parish of Saint James in the County of Cumberland.
I found a shipping list. NSW Gov. Report if vessels arrived Series 1291, Reels 1263-1285, 2851 KINGSWOOD
On it I found a Susanna Barnes Born abt 1813
London to Port Jackson NSW
Arrival Date 11 Aug 1833
"Bussorah Merchant"
also an Elizabeth Barnes same ship Born abt 1811.
I haven't had a chance to look at those reels yet.

I'm still researching.
Regards
Sandra

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Sandra,

Thank you very much. That clears up a few things but it still leaves me with many questions.

I'll start with Joseph Samuel. I have born 17 May 1824 London and died 16 Jul 1878 Wagga Wagga Parents Joseph Barnes & Elizabeth Pickering, but I have nothing to support either of those claims. There is no extracted IGI entry for his birth or baptism on that date and no matching NSW death reg in 1878. Some researchers say the Joseph who married Elizabeth Jane STINSON died in 1879 in Coonabrabran to mother Ann.
---------------
I can see no source showing that the following is a brother.

John born 27 Jun 1812 again there is no extracted IGI record only a privately submited one and not all are reliable. This one may be but how do I know when other privately submited ones have King as mother's name? There are dozens of John BARNES. Do you have the extract from the Bishop's Transcripts for Bletsoe?

Palmyra BARNES John 22 26/09/1838 Reels 2654, 1293 90 [4/4780], [4/4833] Wife 19; farm labourer NRS 5313, 5314

There are lots of John BARNES and I've not had a chance to view any reels yet.
----------------------
Apart from Thomas, what other children came with John & Elizabeth? Again I have conflicting information about the munber of children born in England and the number who came to Australia.

Thomas Alfred b. 17 Apr 1836 ? where does that come from?

John Frederick b. 26 Sep 1837 Privately submitted IGI John & Elizabeth Ellen King - That researcher thinks King is the family name because Ellen seems not to be. I can find no entry in FreeBMD.

Elizabeth Jane b. 9 Jan 1839 ? I can find no entry in FreeBMD in 1839 but there is this extracted record:

b. 20 Sep 1836 c. 3 Sep 1837 Saint Mary-St Marylebone Road, Saint Marylebone, London, England
John & Elizabeth Batch: C035248

But no sign of a twin so it could be a totally different Elizabeth Jane.

George Robert b. 31 Jan 1840 , England John & Elizabeth Ellen King Privately submitted IGI Was he born in England?
I can find no entry in FreeBMD.

--------------
If John, Joesph and Susannah are siblings it seems a bit strange they came separately. I wonder why one researcher said they came together WITH their father?

Do you have a death for Elizabeth PICKERING in England? And do you have a death for her spouse Joseph?

Am I being too hard on you? I'm just trying to find reliable sources - births or baptisms in extracted IGI or births in FreeReg and I'm having trouble finding such sources for so many of the family.

I'm connected to them but not as directly as you are.

Regards,

Dave

 

[sandra]

Hello to Sandra and Dave....re John Barnes 1912 born Bedford, Bedfordshire UK
died 1863 at Wollenbeen, Burrangong NSW....shot by Bushranger John O'Meally.....married Elizabeth Ellen King 1833...St Antholin, Budge Row, London UK....when was she born? died 1886 Cootamundra.. parents Thomas and mary.....Please send your address to Daune PO box 50 Marrickville NSW 2204 and I will post all I have FREE....Cheers, Daune

Hi Daune,
From Cootamundra Sons and Daughters Collection of family stories. From the Cootamundra District. 2002
Dorsetshire.
Elizabeth King Ellen Baptised in the Mustons Lane Independent Church in Shaftesbury. Dorsetshire.
Regards
Sandra

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello daune & Sandra,

Thanks, now I have noticed an extracted IGI entry with her name as Elizh. King Ellen - parents Thomas ELLEN & Elizh. KING.

I'm puzzled why I can't find their first few children in IGI or FreeBMD. I still can't find out how many were born in England and how many and which ones came to Australia with them besides Thomas. I doubt Thomas is the first born too.

Regards,

Dave