Researching Joseph Barnes

[sandra]

Hello daune & Sandra,

Thanks, now I have noticed an extracted IGI entry with her name as Elizh. King Ellen - parents Thomas ELLEN & Elizh. KING.

I'm puzzled why I can't find their first few children in IGI or FreeBMD. I still can't find out how many were born in England and how many and which ones came to Australia with them besides Thomas. I doubt Thomas is the first born too.

Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,
Joseph Samuel Barnes Died Wagga Wagga. NSW 16th July 1878 Stated on his headstone. I searched NSW. BDM for a Death Cert. They don't have one for him. But the Court Documents Confirm the date.
John's Age Stated on his Death Cert.
I found IGI Listings for Thomas Alfred Barnes Born: 17/4/1836 England
Died: 20/10/1902. Father John Barnes
IGI John Frederick Barnes Born: 26/9/1837 England.
IGI George Robert Barnes Born 31/1/1840 England
Died: 24/5/1920 Father John Barnes.
For all three their Mother is Listed as Elizabeth Ellen King? Surely this is a miss print.
A Wagga Wagga Reasearch Officer.Family History Society. Stated that John Barnes and Elizabeth King Ellen. Baptised their three sons on the 12th November 1837 at Dunstan Stepney, London. Before travelling to Australia in 1841 Naming them as Thomas Alfred, William John, and John Frederick.
I still have a lot more researching to do.

Regards
Sandra

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Sandra,

Thank you for the information re Joseph's death. I have a similar situation with an ancestor who died in a boiler explosion near Ballarat in 1856. There is no death certificate because there was an inquest.

This may seem a silly question but how do you know the parents of Joseph Samuel are in fact Joseph and Elizabeth Pickering? There are a huge number of John and Joseph Barnes.

Re the children of John Barnes, I doubt it is a 'miss print' so it's more likely to be the information provided by the submitter. That's why I doubt the accuracy if they can't get the name correct. My impression is that the person never found the marriage and just guessed Ellen could not be the family name. I've seen people work back from age at death to give a birth date of 1783 in Sydney. Did Cook leave someone behind?

Re William John, if he was one of the three sons who arrived in 1841 then it's curious there is no entry for him anywhere being born in England. If he did in fact arrive then either he was baptised a second time or he died because this 1842 baptism has to be explained:

Reg# V18427325 45C/1842 BARNES WILLIAM J JOHN ELIZABETH K

How do we explain the baptism of George Robert in 1840?

Reg# V18407324 45C/1840 BARNES GEORGE R JOHN ELIZABETH K

That's too close to be some other family - 'George R' and 'Elizabeth K' - it has to be but how if they arrived in 1841?

There is a lot more work required to make this solid. I will continue to try and find more details to help.

Regards,

Dave

 

[sandra]

Hello Sandra,

Thank you for the information re Joseph's death. I have a similar situation with an ancestor who died in a boiler explosion near Ballarat in 1856. There is no death certificate because there was an inquest.

This may seem a silly question but how do you know the parents of Joseph Samuel are in fact Joseph and Elizabeth Pickering? There are a huge number of John and Joseph Barnes.

Re the children of John Barnes, I doubt it is a 'miss print' so it's more likely to be the information provided by the submitter. That's why I doubt the accuracy if they can't get the name correct. My impression is that the person never found the marriage and just guessed Ellen could not be the family name. I've seen people work back from age at death to give a birth date of 1783 in Sydney. Did Cook leave someone behind?

Re William John, if he was one of the three sons who arrived in 1841 then it's curious there is no entry for him anywhere being born in England. If he did in fact arrive then either he was baptised a second time or he died because this 1842 baptism has to be explained:

Reg# V18427325 45C/1842 BARNES WILLIAM J JOHN ELIZABETH K

How do we explain the baptism of George Robert in 1840?

Reg# V18407324 45C/1840 BARNES GEORGE R JOHN ELIZABETH K

That's too close to be some other family - 'George R' and 'Elizabeth K' - it has to be but how if they arrived in 1841?

There is a lot more work required to make this solid. I will continue to try and find more details to help.

Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,
Not a silly question. Once again A past Research Officer (now deceased) at the Wagga Wagga History Society. Did research on the MOORE/ARMSTRONG/BARNES families and he wrote in his research that Thomas (son of John) was Joseph's nephew. Thomas married Isobella STINSON, younger sister of Elizabeth (Joseph's wife).
Also Barbara Carmichael wrote in The Stinsons of North Berry Jerry.Book. Isabella married Thomas Barnes on 16th Jan, 1866 at Berry Jerry Station. The witnesses at the marriage were: Joseph Barnes, Thomas' Uncle and his wife Elizabeth Jane Stinson, who was Isabella's sister.
I contacted Barbara to try and find out where they got the information. But to no avail.
I'll keep looking.
Regards,
Sandra

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Sandra,

Thanks for that. I did have them married to the Stinson sisters but I didn't have the bit about who the witnesses were.

My connection is through Eliza Furner who married Joseph Thomas in 1893.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Sandra,

We need to find out if this has a birth associated with it or if it is just a baptism:

Reg# V18427325 45C/1842 BARNES WILLIAM J JOHN ELIZABETH K

How can they arrive in 1841 with this one:

Reg# V18407324 45C/1840 BARNES GEORGE R JOHN ELIZABETH K

Is there anything in the family history that indicates John came from Cornwall, but married Elizabeth in London?

The first three sons were baptised 12 Nov 1837 St Dunstan, Stepney, London, England so any Barnes except for Susannah arriving before that date are from a different family.

The is no marriage for a Joseph Barnes and an Elizabeth Pickering in the Bletsoe transcriptions.

What age at death is recorded for Joseph Samuel? Do the court documents say anything about where he was born or about his parents? Do we really know anything more about his parents than 'Joseph & Elizabeth' from his death certificate?

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Sandra,

It seems there is no proof that the Elizabeth is Elizabeth Pickering. There is no such marriage in the parish records. There is this one though:

Eliz INFIELD & Jos BARNES
16 Oct 1809 Bletsoe, Bedford, England
Batch: M005081

There is also no record of a birth or baptism in 1812 of a John Barnes. The date 27 Jun 1812 can't be found in the records according to someone who works at the Bedford Archives.

A baptism that can be found in the parish records:

Susanna Barnes, daughter of Joseph and Elizabeth, baptised at Bletsoe on 3rd December 1815.

That one is not on IGI as an extracted entry because the extracted IGI don't go past 1812 for Bletsoe.

It looks like it will remain a mystery unless we can find the person who submitted the IGI entry with the date for John and the Pickering bit and find out where that information came from.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Sandra,

The following are all baptisms at St Andrew's Scots Presbyterian in Sydney.


# V18407324 45C/1840 BARNES GEORGE R JOHN ELIZABETH K

# V18427325 45C/1842 BARNES WILLIAM J JOHN ELIZABETH K

# V18447326 45C/1844 BARNES EDWARD T JOHN ELIZABETH K

# V18467327 45/1846 BARNES ELIZABETH M M JOHN ELIZABETH K


Regards,

Dave

 

[sandra]

Hello Sandra,

The following are all baptisms at St Andrew's Scots Presbyterian in Sydney.


# V18407324 45C/1840 BARNES GEORGE R JOHN ELIZABETH K

# V18427325 45C/1842 BARNES WILLIAM J JOHN ELIZABETH K

# V18447326 45C/1844 BARNES EDWARD T JOHN ELIZABETH K

# V18467327 45/1846 BARNES ELIZABETH M M JOHN ELIZABETH K


Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,
I found the birth's of the four children at you have listed. But the best bit of information is I located Susannan Eliza Barnes, she did arrive on the "Bussorah Merchant" on the 11 Aug, 1833. I copied this next bit from "The Merchant's Woman. Imm-058 Writen by Elizabeth Rushen & Perry Mc Intyre.
Susannah Barnes was a 20 year-old English servant girl from London. She had entered the Refuge for the Destitute in 1831, the record of interview stating that her father was a brewer's servant at 2 Collingwood Street, Collingwood Terrace, which is located in Spitalfields, East London. Susannah had spent three months in the House of Correction for stealing a silver spoon from her mistress. It is apparent that she did not get along with her mother, as she claimed that her mother had treated her badly.
Susannah was admitted to the permanent branch of the Refuge and two years later, when the possibility for emigration was offered, she took up the opportunity after her father's permission had been granted.
On 13 December 1837, four years after her arrival in NSW Susannah married at St James Church of England, Sydney to George Robert Nichols a widower. Rev. Robert Cartwright performed the ceremony by special licence and the witnesses were Elisha Hayes, George Moss and Sarah Barnett of George St, Sydney.
Susannah was the second wife of George Robert Nichols, Sydney-born lawyer and politician. The grandson of Esther Johnson, he had been educated in England and in 1833 became the first native-born Australian admitted as a solicitor in NSW. Esther Johnson (nee Abrahams) was a First Fleet convict who gained social respectability as the wife of Lieutenant Johnson and was the beneficiary of his Annandale estate during her lifetime. Nichols edited "The Australian" newspaper in the late 1830's and in 1848 was elected to the Legislative Council. He was a strong supporter of the poor and less fortunate in the community and was opposed to transportation. "The Australian Dictionary of Biography" notes that he died on 12 Sep, 1857 of dropsy at his residence in York St.
Archbishop Polding led his funeral procession to the old cemetery in Devonshire St, and his remains were later transferred to the Anglican section of Rookwood Cemetery.
Susannah bore him two sons and pre-deceased her husband, dying on 12 Nov, 1846. She was buried by Rev William Cowper from the parish of St Laurence the next day. Cowper noted that she was a resident of Redfern, aged 30 years and "wife of Mr G.R. Nichols, Solicitor" Nichols married for a third time to Eliza Smith at Scots Church on 14 July 1854
The children of Sussanah and George were:
1 George Robert b 29 Mar 1838, bap 17 Sep, 1838 St James CofE, Sydney.
2 Sydney Francis: born 9 Oct 1840, bap 1 Feb 1840 ?? St James CofE. Sydney.
You might be right about Elizabeth Pickering but I will keep searching.

Regards
Sandra

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Sandra,

That's great we have details of Susanna now.

Re Elizabeth Infield there are no baptisms that mention her by name but there are none that mention Pickering either. The baptism of Susanna simply says Joseph & Eizabeth.

What information was in the court documents re age at death, place of birth, parents, etc.. for Joseph Samuel?

Regards,

Dave

 

[sandra]

Hello Sandra,

That's great we have details of Susanna now.

Re Elizabeth Infield there are no baptisms that mention her by name but there are none that mention Pickering either. The baptism of Susanna simply says Joseph & Eizabeth.

What information was in the court documents re age at death, place of birth, parents, etc.. for Joseph Samuel?

Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave,
The Insolvency Doc. Do not mention Joseph Samuel's date of death, only refer to him as being deceased. The Insolvency was dated late 1879. No mention of parents or place of Birth.
His headstone on his grave at Wagga Wagga said he died July 16 1878. Aged 55 years.
John's Death Certificate states his parents as Joseph Barnes and E. Pickering.
Joseph's occupation as a Brewer.
I found a entry in www.parishregister.com for a Joseph Samuel Barnes. Born 4/2/1821 Mother Elizabeth. Father Joseph, Occupation: Brewer's Servant.
The address: Tarling Street, St. George in the East.
Source Ref: X097/238
Just a coincidence?
Regards,
Sandra

 

[sandra]

Hello to Sandra and Dave....re John Barnes 1912 born Bedford, Bedfordshire UK
died 1863 at Wollenbeen, Burrangong NSW....shot by Bushranger John O'Meally.....married Elizabeth Ellen King 1833...St Antholin, Budge Row, London UK....when was she born? died 1886 Cootamundra.. parents Thomas and mary.....Please send your address to Daune PO box 50 Marrickville NSW 2204 and I will post all I have FREE....Cheers, Daune

Hi Daune,
Thank you very much for the information. I haven't had a chance to sit down and go through it as yet. But I will be in touch.
Regards,
Sandra

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Sandra & Daune,

It is Elizabeth King ELLEN: (Ellin / Ellen is as common name in Dorset)

Elizh. King ELLEN Birth: 3 Sep 1802
Christening: 4 Jan 1803 Mustons Lane-Independent, Shaftesbury, Dorset, England
Batch: C074311

Thomas ELLEN Spouse: Mary KING
14 Jul 1801 Holy Trinity, Shaftesbury, Dorset, England
Batch: M159511

Regards,

Dave

 

[Marion]

Hello Daune

Note your posting several years ago for Joseph Barnes and family. I an helping a friend who is researching the Thomas Alfred Barnes family who was Joseph's son and am hoping you can share some details please. This info is only for personal use and not publication.

Many thanks
Marion (Sydney)