Robert Young GILLIES

[DaveHam9]

??
1881
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-SPDF

Marriages Mar 1886 W. Derby 8b 720
GILLIES Robert & ... ?
BERRY Thomas & FLYNN Martha Ann

Lancs BMD have marriage of Robert/Ellen as: WD/106/170
Robert Gillies to Ellen S Young 1886 West Derby Register Office or Registrar attended Reg

1891
RG12 Piece 2872 Folio 76 Page 47
Civil Parish: Little Sutton
Eccl. parish: St Paul
Town: Little Sutton
County: Cheshire
Registration District: Wirral
Sub-RD: Eastham
ED: 2
No of Schedule: 57
Address: Chester Rd
GILLIES Robert Head Mar 37 Fustian Merchant Scotland
GILLIES Ellen S Wife Mar 29 - Liverpool Lancashire
Page 48
GILLIES Ronald Son 3 Little Sutton
GILLIES Robert Son 2 Little Sutton
GILLIES Frank Son 1 Little Sutton
GILLIES Ellen Dau 3mo Liverpool Lancashire
CHALLINOR Margaret Serv S 22 General Servant Domestic Great Saughall Cheshire
ROY Mary Serv S 21 Nurse Servant Domestic Chester Cheshire
LITTLER Clara Serv 15 Under-nurse Domestic Chester Cheshire

 

[DaveHam9]

??
Marriages Mar Qtr 1876
Bolton Thomas Uppingham 7a 404
Gillies Robert Young Uppingham 7a 404
Mould Eliza Uppingham 7a 404
PARSONS Emma Uppingham 7a 404


Something is not right.

 

[emeltee]

This is the Robert who married 1876 in Uppingham in the 1881 Census

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-SPDF

I can find Robert and Emma in 1901 and 1911 in Wandsworth, London. In the 1901 Census Robert states that they have been married for 35 years which fits with the 1876 marriage in Uppingham.

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks emeltee.

2x Robert Young Gillies born Scotland abt 1855 ??

This is the one in my tree and not found yet in 1881.

Birth 1855 GILLIES ROBERT YOUNG - M - IRVINE BURGH/AYR 595/01 0041

Page 9
1855 BIRTHS in the Burgh of Irvine in the County of Ayr Registered by James Arthur Campbell Registrar
No. 41 - Gillies Robert (Young) - Male - March Twenty Sixth 1 P. M. - Adam Square - Malcolm Gillies Labourer 30 years Kilwinning - 1845 Irvine 2 Boys 2 Girls 1 Boy deceased - Mary Gillies Maiden name Galt Her 5th child 29 years Irvine - Malcolm Gillies Father - 1855 April 6th At Irvine J. A. Campbell Registrar

1871
RG10 Piece 711 Folio 55 Page 22
Civil Parish: Wandsworth
Eccl. parish: St Anne
Town: Wandsworth
County: Surrey
Registration District: Wandsworth
Sub-RD: Wandsworth
ED: 14
No of Schedule: 117
Address: 22 Warple Way
Malcolm Gillies Head Mar 46 Watchman Scotland
Mary Gillies Wife Mar 45 - Scotland
Robert Gillies Son 16 Factory Worker Scotland
William Gillies Son 14 Factory Worker Scotland
Malcolm Gillies Son 12 Scholar Scotland
Richard Gillies Son 9 Scholar Scotland
Mary Gillies Dau 7 Scholar Scotland
Page 23
Nelbrick Gillies Son 2 Wandsworth Surrey

 

[DaveHam9]

Several births in Scotland 1853 - 1856 for a Robert Gillies but only one with middle name Young.

 

[DaveHam9]

Marriages Jun Qtr 1852 Bury St Edmunds 4a 612
YOUNG James & ASTLEY Ann

1871
RG10 Piece 3857 Folio 127 Page 38
Civil Parish: Widnes
Eccl. parish: St Luke Farnworth
County: Lancashire
Registration District: Prescot
Sub-RD: Farnworth
ED: 6
No of Schedule: 186
Address: Peel House Lane
James Young Head Mar 40 Manager of Alkali Works Liverpool Lancashire
William W Young Son 14 Scholar Liverpool Lancashire
Robert Young Son 11 Scholar Wavertree nr Liverpool Lancashire
Ellen S Young Dau 9 Scholar Wavertree nr Liverpool Lancashire
Alfred W Young Son 4 Widnes Lancashire
Ann Glover Visitor 24 Kendal Cumberland
Plus 2 servants

I don't have them in 1861.

 

[emeltee]

Based on the fact that Robert Young Gillies can be found in Irvine in 1861 and Wandsworth in 1871 with parents Malcolm and Mary, and then in Wandsworth for all subsequent Censuses apart from 1891 when I cannot find him, plus the fact that there is this death in 1934
Robert Y Gillies dec 1934 Wandsworth 1d 600 aged 79
I'd say that you can discount the Robert Gillies who married in West Derby in 1886 and who was living on the Wirral in 1891. He is a totally different Robert Gillies.

 

[emeltee]

James Young and family in 1861.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M7Y5-9V4

Looking at the image of the original the two sons are William Wicks and Robert

 

[emeltee]

There is a lot of confusion here. How do you have Robert Young Gillies in your tree and how sure are you that he is Robert Young Gillies and not plain old Robert Gillies?

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks emeltee.

Good point. Possibly an error in my tree.

Death for a son in Victoria with father just Robert.

Death 16745/1952 GILLIES Kenneth Jas 60 - Robert - Ellen YOUNG - d. Ferntree Gully, Vic.

Marriage to Ellen Sarah Young just Robert.

NSW Death has father as Robert ??

Death 15505/1934 GILLIES ROBERT - ROBERT - MARY - BURWOOD

... Age 80 ... Born in Irvine, Ayrshire, Scotland Mr. Gillies, ... came to New South Wales in 1895 ...

There is only one birth on SP 1853 - 1857 in Irvine and that's the one with middle name Young.

 

[DaveHam9]

Births Dec 1887 GILLIES Ronald - Wirral 8a 435 or 436 mmn YOUNG
Births Dec 1888 GILLIES Robert - Wirral 8a 431 mmn YOUNG
Births Mar 1890 GILLIES Frank - Wirral 8a 446 mmn YOUNG
Births Mar 1891 GILLIES Ellen - W. Derby 8b 605 mmn YOUNG
Births Sep 1895 GILLIES Annie Astley - Wirral 8a 467 mmn YOUNG

The Sydney Morning Herald - Wed 13 Nov 1895 p.6
SHIPPING.
ARRIVALS.-November 12.
Valetta, R.M.S., 4904 tons, Captain Atkinson, from London, via ports Passengers-...
From London to Sydney, Mr. and Mrs. Robert Gillies, 4 children 1 infant and nurse, ...

NSW Birth 8979/1902 GILLIES MARY - ROBERT - ELLEN S - SYDNEY

No son named Malcolm.

Deaths in NSW include:

Death 20728/1952 GILLIES RONALD - ROBERT - ELLEN SARAH - RYDE

Death 16374/1953 GILLIES FRANK - ROBERT - ELLEN SARAH - BURWOOD

Mother is Ellen Sarah so 1886 marriage looks to fit.

Middle name Astley so post #6 Young family in 1871 with Ellen S.

 

[DaveHam9]

1891 census in post #1 look to be ok.

... Fustian Merchant

1913 NSW Electoral Roll - BURWOOD - BURWOOD POLLING-PLACE
GILLIES Robert, Lucas road, merchant
GILLIES Ellen Sarah, Lucas road, domestic duties
GILLIES Ronald, Lucas road, insurance inspector
GILLIES Frank, Lucas road, clerk
GILLIES Ellen, Lucas road, school teacher

 

[DaveHam9]

This is very confusing.

I'm off to the library for a few hours.

1911 Census
Robert and Emma.
No middle name Young but an engine driver born Irvine, Ayr.

Both say they were born in Irvine abt 1855. There is only one birth there and it's the one with middle name Young.

Arrival was 1895 and death in NSW so the Robert who married Emma is not the one I'm tracing. That rules out father as Malcolm and rules out the census in Wandsworth.

That fixes several errors in my tree. We are ok from the 1886 marriage to Ellen Sarah Young onwards.

So, a Robert Gillies born Irvine, Ayr abt 1855 with no birth record on SP and parents probably Robert & Mary.

1861, 1871 and 1881 census not yet found.

 

[DaveHam9]

1861 on SP
GILLIES ROBERT age 7 595/ 2/ 2 IRVINE AYR

GILLIES ROBERT age 6 595/ 6/ 14 IRVINE AYR

1871 and 1881 on SP
None in Irvine, Ayr.

If parents are Robert and Mary as per death reg then I can't find a Gillies family that fits in Irvine in 1851.

No Gillies births on SP in Irvine 1848 - 1854 with parents Robert & Mary.

No Gillies births on SP in Ayr 1848 - 1854 with father as Ronald.

 

[juliejtp]

This might be something to go on. A Robert Gillies married Mary Dunlop 15 Feb 1848 Maybole Ayr. There are 2 children born in Irvine Ayrshire to Robert and Mary nee Dunlop, 2 children to couple with same name in Glasgow, one being Robert with a birth year of 1853.

 

[emeltee]

The only Robert Gillies I could find born in Irvine was baptised 16 June 1848 to a Robert Gillies and Janet Dale. This doesn't fit age wise nor the names of the parents. I am havng great trouble findng Robert in any Censuses before his marriage.

 

[emeltee]

Right, Robert Gillies and family are in Irvine in 1861 and in Tradeston 1871. Son Robert is with them on both occasions and by 1871 is working as a Commercial Clerk. Father Robert is not with the family in 1871 although Mary says she is married. In 1881 the family are in Eastwood, Renfrewshire still minus Robert the father although Mary still says she is married and also Robert the son is now missing. I cannot find him at all in 1881.

 

[DaveHam9]

Thanks Julie.

Thanks emeltee.