RUNCIMAN & THORNLEY families

[DaveHam9]

Hello crankypants,

I'll give you what I have found so far:

SURNAME THORNLEY
GIVEN NAME(S) FREDERICK T
INDEX YEAR 1916
FATHER FREDERICK
MOTHER ELSIE M
PLACE OF REGISTRATION MARRICKVILLE
REGISTRATION YEAR 1916
REGISTRATION NUMBER 19014

Service Record
Name THORNLEY, FREDERICK THOMAS
Service Royal Australian Air Force
Service Number 411059
Date of Birth 21 May 1916
Place of Birth SYDNEY, NSW
Date of Enlistment 31 Mar 1941
Locality on Enlistment Unknown
Place of Enlistment SYDNEY, NSW
Next of Kin PARKS, HEATHER
Date of Death 15 Aug 1943
Rank Flying Officer
Posting on Death 453 Squadron
WW2 Honours and Gallantry None for display
Prisoner of War No
Roll of Honour HURSTVILLE NSW

Roll of Honour - Frederick Thomas Thornley
Frederick Thomas Thornley
Service number: 411059
Rank: Flying Officer
Unit: 453 Squadron
Service: RAAF
Conflict: 1939-1945
Date of death: 15 August 1943
Place of death: Netherlands
Cause of death: Flying Battle
Source: AWM148 Roll of Honour cards, 1939-1945 War, Air Force

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello crankypants,

Thank you very much. May has to be her middle name I'd say because this one fits the date, place and parents.

SURNAME THORNLEY
GIVEN NAME(S) LILLIAN M
INDEX YEAR 1910
FATHER CHARLES
MOTHER LILLIAN
PLACE OF REGISTRATION MARRICKVILLE
REGISTRATION YEAR 1910
REGISTRATION NUMBER 16839

But does it fit in the E/R? Or is that death of a 'May' not the right death for Lillian May? I can't see a marriage for a Lillian May THORNLEY.

EDIT:

Just found one I didn't expect to find in Ryerson while looking for a Lillian May.

THORNLEY Lillian Ellen Death notice 07NOV---- Death 8 months at Marrickville SMH 15NOV1898

-------

Sidney/Sydney George THORNLEY b. 1918 Marrickville d. 2010

married 1946 Canterbury

Daisy Margaret CHRISTIE b. ? d. aft 1949

Please see what you can find after 1943. Thanks.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello crankypants,

Thank you very much. I have one more E/R look up after this one.

Harold John THORNLEY b. 1918 Marrickville

married 1940 Marrickville

Flora Rachel NICOL b. ?

Please see what you can find. Thanks.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello crankypants,

Thank you very much. Last one.

Joseph Keith THORNLEY b. abt 1921 d. 1944 Marrickville

E/R 1943 Lang

Please see what you can find. Thanks.

Next it's back to BECK and on to connected families EIPPER and AYLING.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello crankypants,

Thank you very much. Time to move on to another branch or two or three.

Regards,

Dave

 

[kpenn]

Hi
I am also researching the BAll family of Golborne and have Betsy(Betty) in my tree......daughter of Simeon and Nanny(Nancy/Ann). I am about to confirm the marriage to WilliamThornley in 1876 by the puchase of their marriage certificate from Bolton MBC. If this is of any help to you please let me know...
Kind regards

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello kpenn,

Yes, thanks. I'd love to get a copy of that marriage. It took me almost two years to find it was Simeon BALL. All I had was 'Simeon & Ann' to go with. You have probably laughed at my earlier attempts with BRIGGS and others...

I notice it is Ann in 1841 and Nancy in 1851. Seems she was baptised Nancy. It's Ann here:

Baptism: 25 Jan 1857 St Luke, Lowton, Lancashire, England
Betty Ball - Child of Simeon Ball & Ann
Abode: Golborne
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: Thos. Forster, Rector
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1886 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 189, Entry 1506


I presume since Simeon is a widower in 1861 that one of these is her death:

Deaths Mar 1852
Ball Ann Leigh 8c 93
Deaths Sep 1857
Ball Ann Leigh 8c 114
Deaths Dec 1859
Ball Ann Leigh 8c 92

Regards,

Dave

 

[kpenn]

Hello kpenn,

Yes, thanks. I'd love to get a copy of that marriage. It took me almost two years to find it was Simeon BALL. All I had was 'Simeon & Ann' to go with. You have probably laughed at my earlier attempts with BRIGGS and others...

I notice it is Ann in 1841 and Nancy in 1851. Seems she was baptised Nancy. It's Ann here:

Baptism: 25 Jan 1857 St Luke, Lowton, Lancashire, England
Betty Ball - Child of Simeon Ball & Ann
Abode: Golborne
Occupation: Miner
Baptised by: Thos. Forster, Rector
Register: Baptisms 1845 - 1886 from the Bishop's Transcripts, Page 189, Entry 1506


I presume since Simeon is a widower in 1861 that one of these is her death:

Deaths Mar 1852
Ball Ann Leigh 8c 93
Deaths Sep 1857
Ball Ann Leigh 8c 114
Deaths Dec 1859
Ball Ann Leigh 8c 92

Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave


I am a direct descendant of Simeon Ball.....I still live in the same area as the original family and speak regularly to a lady now in her late eighties who is the great grand daughter of Simeon! There were several children, he did remarry about two years after Nanny died. Nanny is the family name.
Sarah and John Hodson her parents are buried in my local church of St Lukes but most of the other grave stones have disappeared. The family grave in St Thomas church Golborne shows Simeons son John and relatives...Its from John Ball`s line that I am from. Nanny died from chest inflamation as did her young baby William (1860) Her daughter Mary died in the December of that year having fallen asleep in a neighbours house when her clothes caught fire. She survied for eight hours . My research is far from complete . I will visit my local townhall shortly to unearth stuff I can`t find on line .

Speak to you soon...

Kind regards
Kath

 

[kpenn]

Hi Dave


I am a direct descendant of Simeon Ball.....I still live in the same area as the original family and speak regularly to a lady now in her late eighties who is the great grand daughter of Simeon! There were several children, he did remarry about two years after Nanny died. Nanny is the family name.
Sarah and John Hodson her parents are buried in my local church of St Lukes but most of the other grave stones have disappeared. The family grave in St Thomas church Golborne shows Simeons son John and relatives...Its from John Ball`s line that I am from. Nanny died from chest inflamation as did her young baby William (1860) Her daughter Mary died in the December of that year having fallen asleep in a neighbours house when her clothes caught fire. She survied for eight hours . My research is far from complete . I will visit my local townhall shortly to unearth stuff I can`t find on line .

Speak to you soon...

Kind regards
Kath

Sorry forgot to say...Nanny Ball died 27 November 1860 in the presence of Simeon Ball coal miner....their son William died 26 November 1860 and their daughter Mary died 23 December 1860, Coal pit lane Golborne.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Kath,

Thank you so much for the info. The family is in my tree via the marriage of one of my uncles to a THORNLEY descendant. So not a direct line as you can see from the family names on my signature.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Kath,

I didn't have son William in the tree. I notice birth reg for four William in Leigh 1847 to 1860. Ok it can't be Jun 1847 so it's one of the other three. Please point me to the right one. Thanks.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Kath,

I just noticed Simeon b. Sep Q 1859 married in Dec Q 1885 and a son Simeon born Mar Q 1886 ended up in USA.

Regards,

Dave

 

[kpenn]

Hello Kath,

I just noticed Simeon b. Sep Q 1859 married in Dec Q 1885 and a son Simeon born Mar Q 1886 ended up in USA.

Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave

I will do you a potted history with sources for you to follow and verify in your own way to make sure I`ve got things right...eg. Why we can`t find Betsy on one of the English census returns and why she married in Bolton, which in those days was a good way from Golborne. Several Williams for you to look at and Simeon can be found lodging with his sister Jane prior to Marriage and USA.

I`m off for breakfast!!

Speak to you soon..
Kath.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Kath,

Ok, thanks.

Regards,

Dave

 

[kpenn]

Hello Kath,

I didn't have son William in the tree. I notice birth reg for four William in Leigh 1847 to 1860. Ok it can't be Jun 1847 so it's one of the other three. Please point me to the right one. Thanks.

Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave

William Ball son of Simeon and Ann..........born and baptised 25 November 1860 Golborne. Its listed on England and Wales Christening records 1530-1906. Have you seen the Lancs. On Line Parish Clerk web site? (Lancs OPC) You can see the entry there under baptisms.. On Lancashire BMD I suspect this is the record...William Ball Lowton Wigan and Leigh LOW/12/304 1860.

Williams death is Aged 0 Lowton Wigan and Leigh LOW/8/429 1860 and
Nanny Ball Aged 38 " " LOW/8/428 1860

I will return with more info. on Simeon the second and Betsy later


Regards
Kath.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Kath,

Thanks.

Have you seen the Lancs. On Line Parish Clerk web site? (Lancs OPC)

Yes, Steve reminded me of that one. I tend to forget which OPC sites actually have something that fits my tree. The Lancs one does but the Sussex one does not because Brede is not available yet and 90% of the FURNERs are from that parish.

Regards,

Dave

 

[kpenn]

Hi Dave

William Ball son of Simeon and Ann..........born and baptised 25 November 1860 Golborne. Its listed on England and Wales Christening records 1530-1906. Have you seen the Lancs. On Line Parish Clerk web site? (Lancs OPC) You can see the entry there under baptisms.. On Lancashire BMD I suspect this is the record...William Ball Lowton Wigan and Leigh LOW/12/304 1860.

Williams death is Aged 0 Lowton Wigan and Leigh LOW/8/429 1860 and
Nanny Ball Aged 38 " " LOW/8/428 1860

I will return with more info. on Simeon the second and Betsy later


Regards
Kath.

Hi Dave

Sorry it has taken a few days to come back with the information on Betsy Ball.......But the post arrived this morning with a copy of the marriage certificate I promised......

William Thornley......21years.......Bachelor ....Ironturner....317 Lever Street Bolton. Son of Thomas Thornley...Ironturner.

Betsy Ball.......20 Years ......Spinster.....No occupation listed.....Parrot Street Bolton. Daughter of Simeon BAll.....Collier.


On the 25th. December 1876.....the Parish Church...Bolton le Moors in the county of Lancaster.

In the presence of ......John Thornley and Mary Ellen Fielding.
All parties signed.

Certificate copy no. AB 517138.


Freebmd marriage index 1837-
Betsey Ball 1876 Oct-Dec quarter Bolton 8c 383
matched for William Thornley


Lancs bmd Ball Betsy Thornley William Bolton St. Peter 18/26/229


Have found Thomas Thornley b.1834 Ashton -under-Lyne....Ironturner and wife Jane b.1836 Bolton. Son William b 1856 Bolton.....son John b1858 Bolton. Not sure yet who Mary Ellen Fielding is. I am looking at 1871 and they live in Apple street Bolton which is near to Parrot Street. In 1881 apart from William they are at 278 Lever Street.

I can`t trace Betsy in 1871 but I am sure she is in Bolton near her Married sister Amelia Gregory b1843 Golborne now wed to Adam b 1841 and living at 10 Parrot Street Bolton.....plus their other sister Ann Ball b1855. at the same address. Not sure what happened to Ann, but another sister Sarah Ball most probably wed Thomas Pilling in 1872 and in 1881 they are at 1 Ormrod Street Bolton

On the Lancs bmd web it looks as if no Bolton transcriptions have been entered on births/marriages and not much better on LANCS OPC.......

But I always say......The Apple never falls far from the Tree!


Hope this helps..all the best with your search....


Kind regards
Kath

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Kath,

Thank you very much. Yes, Betsy is hard to trace. I've not looked to see if any of her siblings married.

Simeon BALL b. 29 Nov 1817 c. 21 Dec 1817 Winwick, Lancashire, England

William BALL Spouse: Margaret BRANWOOD
Marriage: 26 Jan 1817 Leigh, Lancashire, England

Marriage: 26 Jan 1817 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
William Ball - Weaver of Leigh Parish
Margaret Branwood - (X), Spinster of Leigh Parish
Witness: James Lees; Timothy Taylor
Married by Banns by: Danl. Birkett Vicar
Register: Marriages 1813 - 1820, Page 167, Entry 501


Regards,

Dave

 

[kpenn]

Hello Kath,

Thank you very much. Yes, Betsy is hard to trace. I've not looked to see if any of her siblings married.

Simeon BALL b. 29 Nov 1817 c. 21 Dec 1817 Winwick, Lancashire, England

William BALL Spouse: Margaret BRANWOOD
Marriage: 26 Jan 1817 Leigh, Lancashire, England

Marriage: 26 Jan 1817 St Mary the Virgin, Leigh, Lancashire, England
William Ball - Weaver of Leigh Parish
Margaret Branwood - (X), Spinster of Leigh Parish
Witness: James Lees; Timothy Taylor
Married by Banns by: Danl. Birkett Vicar
Register: Marriages 1813 - 1820, Page 167, Entry 501


Regards,

Dave

Hi Dave

Yes I have noted this entry on Lancs OPC............but I have not accepted it .
I know of 3 combinations of "William and Margarets" and have managed to fit each child with each parent according to Margarets child bearing age. If you consider that she could have given birth around 1810 then "Thomas Ball" born in 1812 may be one of ours and living in the same location of Edgegreen Golborne. Also given that William Ball was listed as born in Abram and a collier not weaver casts doubt in my mind. Margaret "Brandwood" of Leigh would have needed a vehicle! to do her courting. There is another child "William" born in 1815....second child, second son to William and Margaret .could be one of ours.....this is why I need to go to the archives in Leigh and track them all down..........of course I`ll let you know.

Bye for now....
Kath.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Kath,

I posted that marriage because that's what someone gave me. I'm glad you can rule it out for several reasons including the occupation weaver. I'll leave it to you to and the archives at Leigh to sort it out for me. Thanks.

Regards,

Dave