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Searching for the right William Vivian

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Chippenham, Wiltshire
#1
If anyone can help or advise me with a big, high brick wall I have hit it would be much appreciated. It’s very complicated. I’ve gone round and round in circles looking for months.

I am trying to trace my 2 x Grt Grandafther’s family. He was called William Vivian. He married a lady called Eliza Vivian (sometimes named Elizabeth)on 1st Aug 1861 in the parish of Par, Cornwall. (St. Austell area) Eliza’s father was a mine agent called William Vivian. William’s father was also named William Vivian and he was a miner. Eliza also had a brother called William Vivian! :eek: I have been able to trace Eliza’s family back without too many difficulties but I can’t trace William’s.

3 Children were born to Eliza and William in Cornwall; Anne b 1862, Mary b 1863 and Ralf b 1864. The family then moved to the Pontypridd area in South Wales as did 2 of Eliza’s siblings and their families. On 2nd Jan 1867 my Grt Grandfather – yet another William Vivian was born. William was working as an iron miner in the Bute Works in Llantrisant. On 23rd Mar 1868 my 2 xGG died – the cert is very difficult to decipher but he seems to have been killed by something from falling from the roof of the mine he was employed at. An inquest was held. I have made enquires in the Pontyrpidd area and it seems that no inquest or newspaper reports have survived for the time. I’ve also checked the Welsh mines websites. William’s age on the death cert is 30 which means he would have been born in 1837 or 1838 (1838 is the year that Eliza’s brother named William Vivian was born too! I did say this was complicated!) :eek:

I paid the Cornwall FHS to look for me. They managed to marry Eliza to her brother William. :eek: When I pointed this out to them they tried really hard to help but came up with nothing in the end.

There is a William Vivian born in Illogan on A******y but there seems to be some uncertainty as to whether he was born in 1838. The date has been corrected to 1848.

If you aren’t too confused any help at all or suggestions of how I can find the family would be very welcome. It seems to have been a very popular name in Cornwall at the time.
 

Robesur

Well-known member
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Perth, Scotland
#3
I would assume that you have tried all the obvious William Vivian in the St Austell area of about the correct age, but these are the possibles that I can see. Unfortunately with the exception of Eliza's family I can't see any of them on more than one census.
1841
There is a William Vivian age 30 at Trumble?, St Clements with Elizabeth 25 and a 1 year old William. William senior was an Ag Lab at the time.
Penhale Village, St Austell, there is a 20 year old William Vivian, a Tin Miner with Mary 20, Richard 3 and William 2
1861 at Holmbush, St Austell there is a 53 year old William a Tin Miner, born in Devon, with wife Elizabeth 54, with a son William 23. As this was only a few months before the marriage, I assume that you have checked this one.
There is also an oddity in 1851 that crossed my mind as an outside possibility. At East Turnpike, St Austell there is an Eliza Vivian, 35, calling herself a Miners Wife. No husband present so no idea if he was a William, she has with her a son Edwin Vivian age 2 and another son William Bohemia? age 11, already with an occupation as 'Labourer at Mine'. I would assume that he was perhaps a child prior to marriage, and registered as Bohemia or something similar, there are possibles. It is possible that at a later date he changed his name to that of the rest of the family,Vivian, but I doubt if a birth certificate will give a father's name.
I have heard of cases where a father's name was invented on marriage, just to avoid embarrrassment.
 
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Location
Chippenham, Wiltshire
#4
Thank you for the replies.

The family at Holmbush in 1861 is Eliza's family and it is her brother William on that census return.

The possible William Vivian's in 1841 don't seem to be on any later censuses. I had found this too.

There is also an oddity in 1851 that crossed my mind as an outside possibility. At East Turnpike, St Austell there is an Eliza Vivian, 35, calling herself a Miners Wife. No husband present so no idea if he was a William, she has with her a son Edwin Vivian age 2 and another son William Bohemia? age 11, already with an occupation as 'Labourer at Mine'. I would assume that he was perhaps a child prior to marriage, and registered as Bohemia or something similar, there are possibles. It is possible that at a later date he changed his name to that of the rest of the family,Vivian, but I doubt if a birth certificate will give a father's name.

I will have a look at this.

I have heard of cases where a father's name was invented on marriage, just to avoid embarrrassment. :eek: That could explain it!
 
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Location
Chippenham, Wiltshire
#9
Thank you for looking Julie.

Yes, the William Vivian who died in 1868 in Pontypridd district is my 2 x Grt Grandfather.

The witnesses on the marriage cert are; Robert Vivian - Eliza had a brother called Robert. The other name looks like Iom Vivian - probably Tom.
 
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juliejtp

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Robin Hood County
#10
Tom must be Elizas brother. Did find another Tom Vivian born St Austell, his mother Elizabeth married a John Hancock but couldnt see a William with Elizabeth and her first husband in 1851, she was a little bit to young to have a son born 1838. Do you know where the name Ralf/ Ralph comes from? there is a William Ralph Vivian born or baptised in 1833 St Austell, unless he belongs to Elizas side of the family.
 
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Location
Chippenham, Wiltshire
#11
Eliza had a brother called Ralph - he was the eldest child in her family. He was born in 1833 and was one of the siblings who moved to South Wales. It seems to be a family name. Eliza's grandfather was called Ralph. The name seems to have carried on through the family.
Thank you so much for the time you have taken looking at this for me.
 
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Location
Chippenham, Wiltshire
#12
Something in your last post got me thinking Julie and I've had a flash of inspiration..........I don't want to say anything yet as I need to do some searching again and work it all out before saying anything. It might take me a couple of days to look at it all but I'll come back to the thread. Sorry if this sounds a bit jumbled!
 
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Location
Chippenham, Wiltshire
#15
Lee- I've trawled through that site on many a evening!!!! It's very good but confusing too!

I will be busy over the next few days looking, checking, searching and probably need to send for several birth certs too but think I may have solved one problem and created another!! :2fun:

I hope to be able to return the favour at some point and help someone else out on this forum.
 

leefer

Loyal Member
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swindon wilts
#16
Well good luck....it could be worse,i could be googling Clutterbucks!
A few Vivians(Vivian and sons) had there own mine in Swansea so it seems a fair few swapped Cornwall for South Wales.

Regards..Lee.
 
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14
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0
Location
Chippenham, Wiltshire
#17
Just to update - I have been unable to do much about this for the last couple of weeks due to an unforeseen and difficult problem at home. :( It's been very stressful but is now almost resolved so I hope to be able to make some headway over the next week or so with my search. I have managed to 'find' some pennies to send for some certs.
I didn't want any of the helpful people who replied to my plea to think I had just disappeared so just thought I'd let you know.

Lee - the Clutterbucks have been much easier to reserach than the Vivians! :biggrin:
 

lajitabru

New member
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Location
san diego
#18
My Gr-Grandfather William Vivian born in England @ 1825-1830
Died in Sonora, Mexico 1895
He was a miner and immigrated to Sonora, Mexico
He married Maria Jesus Acosta @ 1870
Their Children:
Eliza born @ 1876 (my Grandmother)
William
Caroline
Elizabeth
Albert
Samuel
Any information would be greatly appreciated
Leticia
 
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14
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Location
Chippenham, Wiltshire
#19
An embarrassingly long time later......:redface::eek::eek:.......I have solved the problem/mystery!:biggrin::biggrin:
As my elderly mother would say 'everything comes to he who waits!' A long break, some perseverance, persistence and pennies (make that pounds!!) a lot of confusion and frustration but today I have solved it all and have my 2 x GGM's birth cert and have found my 2 x GGF's family too.
I will be doing a happy dance for days to come!!:biggrin:
Many thanks for those who tried to help me!:)
 
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