My mum and I are hoping to find information about my maternal great, great grandmother Laure Constance Cliff (nee Tissot). To the best of our knowledge, with the limited information we have managed to gather, Laure was a Swiss national (french speaking) born possibly in 1851 - 1854 (depending on which document you take her age from, eg marriage certificate, census, death certificate etc). We have documents of her life following her marriage to my great, great grandfather, Henry Cliff in 1879, but we have nothing identifying where in Switzerland she came from, or any other members of her family pre-dating her marriage. Her fathers name is recorded on her marriage certificate as Henry Fredrick Tissot. The only other 'clue' to her possible past that we have is a document found with her papers that has been passed down through the family to my mum, which has the name of a lady we can only presume is a friend or family member, called Juliette Lea Journet (we know Journet is her married name but no idea of her maiden name) who came from Neufchatel, Switzerland, who passed away 1909 aged 58 (which makes her DOB around the same time as Laure). Whether they are friends, cousins etc we do not know, and we do not know where in Switzerland Laure came from, but the tenuous link we have to Neufchatel is the only mention of a location in Switzerland we have to begin to try and trace this back. We can't speak Swiss-french but have found out that to delve into swiss archived records we would need to approach specific cantons. Any help anyone can offer or suggestions of how to proceed with the limited knowledge we have would be very gratefully appreciated. Thanks Clare and Pauline.
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Seeking help to trace ancestor from Switzerland
- Thread starter Woodies
- Start date
Hi, Welcome to the group,
Not much help here but she married in England
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2D5B-V5J?from=lynx1UIV7
1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27K-HJ81
The Juliette Lea Journet is probably Lea Journet, (nee Tissot), born 1851 Switzerland married Anatole Mclchior Journet 1873, Westminster St. Margaret, London. If you get the marriage cert. it may show the same father as Laure .
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DG9-JX4
1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-7LV2
1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QMG6-F6Z
Lea Juliette Journet death 1909
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2JS1-1VY
Anatole Journet death 24 Jun 1904
Probate
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPL4-Q644
Not much help here but she married in England
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2D5B-V5J?from=lynx1UIV7
1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27K-HJ81
The Juliette Lea Journet is probably Lea Journet, (nee Tissot), born 1851 Switzerland married Anatole Mclchior Journet 1873, Westminster St. Margaret, London. If you get the marriage cert. it may show the same father as Laure .
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2DG9-JX4
1881 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q27Q-7LV2
1891 census
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QMG6-F6Z
Lea Juliette Journet death 1909
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:2JS1-1VY
Anatole Journet death 24 Jun 1904
Probate
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPL4-Q644
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Hi Solidrock2,
Thank you very much for your reply and help, and for the links. Wow! You have achieved in a few hours what it took my mum and I a few years to find out, and then some more besides!! We started our family ancestry journey about 10 years ago, and it all begin with an interest in finding out more about Laure Tissot. This led us on to a whole family tree on my mum's side, but we have never managed to find out about Laure Tissot prior to her marriage. We had a break from our search for the past 8 or so years, but have always wanted to pick up again our search for the Swiss family of Laure - we just didn't know where to start. We never thought to explore Juliette Lea Journet's past - silly now as it is so obvious to us now you have mentioned it. Thank you very much for the nudge in that direction. We will indeed apply for the marriage certificate, and see if that gives us any clues. I have also noticed typing error in my original post - it should say 'Neuchatel', not 'Neufchatel'. And from our searches a decade ago I did not know of the website 'Family Search', but have now registered and that looks a very helpful site.
I hope you don't mind me asking, but do you know how we can search Swiss records if we can perhaps manage to find further names and trace back to a specific Swiss Canton or town?
Thanks again for your help.
Clare
Thank you very much for your reply and help, and for the links. Wow! You have achieved in a few hours what it took my mum and I a few years to find out, and then some more besides!! We started our family ancestry journey about 10 years ago, and it all begin with an interest in finding out more about Laure Tissot. This led us on to a whole family tree on my mum's side, but we have never managed to find out about Laure Tissot prior to her marriage. We had a break from our search for the past 8 or so years, but have always wanted to pick up again our search for the Swiss family of Laure - we just didn't know where to start. We never thought to explore Juliette Lea Journet's past - silly now as it is so obvious to us now you have mentioned it. Thank you very much for the nudge in that direction. We will indeed apply for the marriage certificate, and see if that gives us any clues. I have also noticed typing error in my original post - it should say 'Neuchatel', not 'Neufchatel'. And from our searches a decade ago I did not know of the website 'Family Search', but have now registered and that looks a very helpful site.
I hope you don't mind me asking, but do you know how we can search Swiss records if we can perhaps manage to find further names and trace back to a specific Swiss Canton or town?
Thanks again for your help.
Clare
Hi Clare,
Glad it was some help,I'm still trying to find the Tissot births without much luck so far. With regards to Neuchatel it seems that it belonged to France up until 1857 so the births could be in French records. FamilySearch says the records for Neuchatel are incomplete which could mean that they have not been transcribed yet or they were destroyed during the war. Seems like Anatole Journet died in France at Alpes-Maritimes, maybe this is where he was born.
Here's his probate and that of Lea Juliette. I will keep searching for a bit.
Not sure where to begin to look assuming they were born in Switzerland but here's an email address for Neuchatel registry....
etat-civil.neuchatel@ne.ch
And the complete list for all registry's...
http://www.weesen.ch/dl.php/de/0cvo8-t4pgw9/ZVA_Liste_2008.pdf
Lea Juliette's grave, Nunhead Cemetery Linden Grove, London, Greater London.
Glad it was some help,I'm still trying to find the Tissot births without much luck so far. With regards to Neuchatel it seems that it belonged to France up until 1857 so the births could be in French records. FamilySearch says the records for Neuchatel are incomplete which could mean that they have not been transcribed yet or they were destroyed during the war. Seems like Anatole Journet died in France at Alpes-Maritimes, maybe this is where he was born.
Here's his probate and that of Lea Juliette. I will keep searching for a bit.
Not sure where to begin to look assuming they were born in Switzerland but here's an email address for Neuchatel registry....
etat-civil.neuchatel@ne.ch
And the complete list for all registry's...
http://www.weesen.ch/dl.php/de/0cvo8-t4pgw9/ZVA_Liste_2008.pdf
Lea Juliette's grave, Nunhead Cemetery Linden Grove, London, Greater London.
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Following from Keith's replies, I am not able to get the full article as im not a paid member to the newspaper archives.
British newspaper archives
Published: Friday 23 April 1909
Newspaper: South London Press
County: London, England
claims against the Estate Juliette Journet. late 277, Union Street (formerly 3, Charlotte Streeti, Blacfriar-. Road, in the County of Widow carried on business as an Ojiera Hat Manufacturer under the name of Journet. at 277. Union Stre.t nforesaid,
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk
.
British newspaper archives
Published: Friday 23 April 1909
Newspaper: South London Press
County: London, England
claims against the Estate Juliette Journet. late 277, Union Street (formerly 3, Charlotte Streeti, Blacfriar-. Road, in the County of Widow carried on business as an Ojiera Hat Manufacturer under the name of Journet. at 277. Union Stre.t nforesaid,
https://www.britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk
.
Good one Gibbo. Looking to see if they are in any directories but can't find any. Interesting bit of info on Ancestry....
What did your Journet ancestors do for a living?
In 1881, the most common Journet occupation in the UK was Hatter. 100% of Journet's were Hatters.
All this is not much help to finding Laure and Juliette's birth, French and Swiss BMD's are a nightmare. There seems to be a lot of Tissot's in England that were born around the same time in Neuchatel Switzerland, what happened there to make them all leave and come to England.
Maybe Clare can throw some more light on this "document found with her papers" to see if it has any more useful information also was Laure's father, Henry Fredrick Tissot alive or deceased at the time of her marriage and who were the witnesses? More questions than answers at the moment.
Just found Kelly's directory 1891..
Post Office directory 1894...
What did your Journet ancestors do for a living?
In 1881, the most common Journet occupation in the UK was Hatter. 100% of Journet's were Hatters.
All this is not much help to finding Laure and Juliette's birth, French and Swiss BMD's are a nightmare. There seems to be a lot of Tissot's in England that were born around the same time in Neuchatel Switzerland, what happened there to make them all leave and come to England.
Maybe Clare can throw some more light on this "document found with her papers" to see if it has any more useful information also was Laure's father, Henry Fredrick Tissot alive or deceased at the time of her marriage and who were the witnesses? More questions than answers at the moment.
Just found Kelly's directory 1891..
Post Office directory 1894...
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Another puzzle, where were Henry and Laure after 1881 can't find them on census.
Laure died in 1905...
CLIFF Laura Constance 51 Lambeth 1d 175 1905
She appeared to be living alone from 1903 in Lambeth.
1903
1904
1905
Just found Henry's death...
CLIFF, HENRY 45 GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 211
Laure died in 1905...
CLIFF Laura Constance 51 Lambeth 1d 175 1905
She appeared to be living alone from 1903 in Lambeth.
1903
1904
1905
Just found Henry's death...
CLIFF, HENRY 45 GRO Reference: 1901 M Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 211
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I think this is the family in 1891, Laura is listed as Louise born 1863, Switzerland.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QHLD-H6Z
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QHLD-H6Z
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Now to make things more complicated. There's this family living in Lambeth 1901, I first thought it maybe a sister of Laura but some thing does'nt add up, driving me nuts. There's to many coincidences here.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9H6-DBF
CLIFF, JOHN FREDERICK mmn TISSOT GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 367
CLIFF, ARTHUR JAMES TISSOLT mmn TISSOLT GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 50
CLIFF, ISAAC ALBERT mmn TISSOTT GRO Reference: 1893 S Quarter in ST SAVIOUR LONDON Volume 01D Pag
CLIFF, ROSE LEA mmn TISSOT GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 108 e 83
CLIFF, HENRY OSCAR mmn SISSOT GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 111
In 1911 John Frederick is living with his brother Henry Oscar.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWPB-Z1L
Rose Lea married Albert George Mawby 1906.
CLIFF Rose Lea Lambeth 1d 670
MAWBY Albert George Lambeth 1d 670
In 1911 2 of Rose Lea's brothers were living with her. Albert Isaac Cliff and Arthur James Cliff.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW53-SKR
Mystery solved, Rachel is in fact Laura the address on the 1901 census is the same as 58 and 59 Surrey Lodge Buildings on the electoral rolls for 1903-1905.
There's to many coincidences here.https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9H6-DBF
CLIFF, JOHN FREDERICK mmn TISSOT GRO Reference: 1895 S Quarter in LAMBETH Volume 01D Page 367
CLIFF, ARTHUR JAMES TISSOLT mmn TISSOLT GRO Reference: 1887 D Quarter in ST SAVIOUR SURREY Volume 01D Page 50
CLIFF, ISAAC ALBERT mmn TISSOTT GRO Reference: 1893 S Quarter in ST SAVIOUR LONDON Volume 01D Pag
CLIFF, ROSE LEA mmn TISSOT GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 108 e 83
CLIFF, HENRY OSCAR mmn SISSOT GRO Reference: 1882 S Quarter in BASFORD Volume 07B Page 111
In 1911 John Frederick is living with his brother Henry Oscar.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWPB-Z1L
Rose Lea married Albert George Mawby 1906.
CLIFF Rose Lea Lambeth 1d 670
MAWBY Albert George Lambeth 1d 670
In 1911 2 of Rose Lea's brothers were living with her. Albert Isaac Cliff and Arthur James Cliff.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW53-SKR
Mystery solved, Rachel is in fact Laura the address on the 1901 census is the same as 58 and 59 Surrey Lodge Buildings on the electoral rolls for 1903-1905.
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Here we go....
Laure-Constance Tissot was born on 4 December 1851 and baptised on 27 December 1851 at La Sagne canton Neuchâtel.
Her parents were Frédéric-Henri Tissot (son of Jean-Frédéric Tissot) and Elise Nicolet (daughter of Frédéric-Louis Nicolet).
Juliette-Léa was Laure's sister: she was born on 26 March 1850 and baptised on 11 May 1850 at La Sagne.
Laure-Constance Tissot was born on 4 December 1851 and baptised on 27 December 1851 at La Sagne canton Neuchâtel.
Her parents were Frédéric-Henri Tissot (son of Jean-Frédéric Tissot) and Elise Nicolet (daughter of Frédéric-Louis Nicolet).
Juliette-Léa was Laure's sister: she was born on 26 March 1850 and baptised on 11 May 1850 at La Sagne.
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Hi Keith,
Oh my word!!! How on earth did you find all this out?? That is truly amazing and brilliant to know. You have just made my mum and I so happy to finally have this information.
The John Frederick Cliff you've mentioned above from the 1901 census, one of Laure's sons, is my mum's maternal grandfather.
The document we have from Laure which has been passed down and is now with my mum, is a beautiful Death card (photos attached) for Juliette Lea, so we felt she must have been someone very important to Laure - we just didn't know the connection. It is great to know that Laure and Juliette were sisters. And to have their parents names as well, and their grandfather's names, is something we never thought we would get. We have just looked up La Sagne and it seems such a small and remote village, even in today's standards, that it is perhaps why the sisters set off to find wealth, happiness and life somewhere else.
Keith, thank you so very much for your time and effort to find this out. You don't know us yet you have been so kind to help. Can we repay you in any way.
Clare and Pauline
Oh my word!!! How on earth did you find all this out?? That is truly amazing and brilliant to know. You have just made my mum and I so happy to finally have this information.
The John Frederick Cliff you've mentioned above from the 1901 census, one of Laure's sons, is my mum's maternal grandfather.
The document we have from Laure which has been passed down and is now with my mum, is a beautiful Death card (photos attached) for Juliette Lea, so we felt she must have been someone very important to Laure - we just didn't know the connection. It is great to know that Laure and Juliette were sisters. And to have their parents names as well, and their grandfather's names, is something we never thought we would get. We have just looked up La Sagne and it seems such a small and remote village, even in today's standards, that it is perhaps why the sisters set off to find wealth, happiness and life somewhere else.
Keith, thank you so very much for your time and effort to find this out. You don't know us yet you have been so kind to help. Can we repay you in any way.
Clare and Pauline
Attachments
Hi Clare and Pauline,
I can't take all the credit for finding the births, I put out some feelers and one came up trumps. It's from an English lady, living in France I think, married to a Swiss man who has been to Neuchâtel and done a lot of research there. They said that they will send me more information about the Tissot's and the Nicolet's who I think are distant relatives to them, I will post it here as soon as I get it. No repayment require just so glad that weve been able to help you. Been doing research for 20 years and this is the first time I've looked at Switzerland, not easy as there appears to be no digitised records it was just luck finding someone who had been there and researched the same family. Laura gave me some headaches by keep changing her name on the census's. Watch this space for more info.
I can't take all the credit for finding the births, I put out some feelers and one came up trumps. It's from an English lady, living in France I think, married to a Swiss man who has been to Neuchâtel and done a lot of research there. They said that they will send me more information about the Tissot's and the Nicolet's who I think are distant relatives to them, I will post it here as soon as I get it. No repayment require just so glad that weve been able to help you. Been doing research for 20 years and this is the first time I've looked at Switzerland, not easy as there appears to be no digitised records it was just luck finding someone who had been there and researched the same family. Laura gave me some headaches by keep changing her name on the census's. Watch this space for more info.
Last edited:
Hi Clare and Pauline,
A bit more for you, Laure's other siblings...
Marie-Cecile Tissot. born 2 FEB 1843 • Le Locle, baptised 2 MAR 1843 • Le Locle.
Henriette-Melina Tissot. born 2 MAY 1845 • La Sagne, baptised 15 JUN 1845 • La Sagne.
Henri-Albert Tissot. born 26 SEP 1847 • La Sagne, baptised 7 NOV 1847 • La Sagne.
Jean-Frederic Tissot. born 19 APR 1854 • La Sagne.
Charles-Oscar Tissot. born 20 JUN 1855 • La Sagne.
Father.
Frederick- Henri Tissot. born 7 SEP 1818 • La Sagne.
Siblings.
Frederic-Louis Tissot. born 18 MAY 1820 • La Sagne. baptised 10 JUN 1820 • La Sagne.
Charles-Auguste Tissot. born 1 OCT 1822 • La Sagne. baptised 24 OCT 1822 • La Sagne.
Mother.
Emelie Nicolet. Married 20 NOV 1841 • Les Ponts-de-Martel.
Parents of Frédéric-Henri TISSOT. 7 SEP 1818 - La Sagne.
Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. 11 FEB 1780 - La Sagne.
Marie-Charlotte HUGUENIN-BERGENAT. 18 MAY 1780 - La Brévine. baptised 28 MAY 1780 • La Brévine.
Married 7 FEB 1818 • La Brévine.
Siblings of Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. 1780.
Marianne TISSOT. 18 JUL 1773 - La Sagne. Baptised 25 JUL 1773 • La Sagne.
Rose TISSOT. 26 AUG 1777 - La Sagne. Baptised 7 SEP 1777 • La Sagne.
Abraham-Louis TISSOT. 29 JUL 1783 - Le Locle. Baptised 17 AUG 1783 • Le Locle.
David-Henri TISSOT. 26 MAR 1787 - La Chaux-de-Fonds. Baptised 21 APR 1787 • La Chaux-de-Fonds.
Parents of Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. 1780.
Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. NOV 1729 - Le Locle. Baptized 27 NOV 1729 • Le Locle. Burial 15 MAR 1788 • La Sagne.
Marianne VUILLE. SEP 1748 - La Chaux-de-Fonds. Baptized 28 SEP 1748 - La Chaux-de-Fonds.
Married 17 DEC 1772 • La Sagne.
Siblings of Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. 1729
Judith-Marie TISSOT. MAR 1732 - Le Locle. Baptised 13 MAR 1732 • Le Locle.
Marie-Madelaine TISSOT. 17343 JAN - Le Locle. Baptised 3 JAN - Le Locle.
Marianne TISSOT. 1741 - Le Locle. Baptised 21 MAY 1741 - Le Locle.
Susanne-Esther TISSOT. 1743 - Le Locle. Baptised 10 NOV 1743 - Le Locle.
Charlotte TISSOT. 1746 - Le Locle. Baptised 1 JAN 1747 - Le Locle.
Parents of Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. 1729
Moïse TISSOT. Birth unknown. Biurial 6 OCT 1774 • La Sagne. Marie-Madelaine OTHENIN-GIRARD. Birth unknown.
Married 6 NOV 1728 • La Sagne.
,
A bit more for you, Laure's other siblings...
Marie-Cecile Tissot. born 2 FEB 1843 • Le Locle, baptised 2 MAR 1843 • Le Locle.
Henriette-Melina Tissot. born 2 MAY 1845 • La Sagne, baptised 15 JUN 1845 • La Sagne.
Henri-Albert Tissot. born 26 SEP 1847 • La Sagne, baptised 7 NOV 1847 • La Sagne.
Jean-Frederic Tissot. born 19 APR 1854 • La Sagne.
Charles-Oscar Tissot. born 20 JUN 1855 • La Sagne.
Father.
Frederick- Henri Tissot. born 7 SEP 1818 • La Sagne.
Siblings.
Frederic-Louis Tissot. born 18 MAY 1820 • La Sagne. baptised 10 JUN 1820 • La Sagne.
Charles-Auguste Tissot. born 1 OCT 1822 • La Sagne. baptised 24 OCT 1822 • La Sagne.
Mother.
Emelie Nicolet. Married 20 NOV 1841 • Les Ponts-de-Martel.
Parents of Frédéric-Henri TISSOT. 7 SEP 1818 - La Sagne.
Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. 11 FEB 1780 - La Sagne.
Marie-Charlotte HUGUENIN-BERGENAT. 18 MAY 1780 - La Brévine. baptised 28 MAY 1780 • La Brévine.
Married 7 FEB 1818 • La Brévine.
Siblings of Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. 1780.
Marianne TISSOT. 18 JUL 1773 - La Sagne. Baptised 25 JUL 1773 • La Sagne.
Rose TISSOT. 26 AUG 1777 - La Sagne. Baptised 7 SEP 1777 • La Sagne.
Abraham-Louis TISSOT. 29 JUL 1783 - Le Locle. Baptised 17 AUG 1783 • Le Locle.
David-Henri TISSOT. 26 MAR 1787 - La Chaux-de-Fonds. Baptised 21 APR 1787 • La Chaux-de-Fonds.
Parents of Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. 1780.
Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. NOV 1729 - Le Locle. Baptized 27 NOV 1729 • Le Locle. Burial 15 MAR 1788 • La Sagne.
Marianne VUILLE. SEP 1748 - La Chaux-de-Fonds. Baptized 28 SEP 1748 - La Chaux-de-Fonds.
Married 17 DEC 1772 • La Sagne.
Siblings of Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. 1729
Judith-Marie TISSOT. MAR 1732 - Le Locle. Baptised 13 MAR 1732 • Le Locle.
Marie-Madelaine TISSOT. 17343 JAN - Le Locle. Baptised 3 JAN - Le Locle.
Marianne TISSOT. 1741 - Le Locle. Baptised 21 MAY 1741 - Le Locle.
Susanne-Esther TISSOT. 1743 - Le Locle. Baptised 10 NOV 1743 - Le Locle.
Charlotte TISSOT. 1746 - Le Locle. Baptised 1 JAN 1747 - Le Locle.
Parents of Jean-Frédéric TISSOT. 1729
Moïse TISSOT. Birth unknown. Biurial 6 OCT 1774 • La Sagne. Marie-Madelaine OTHENIN-GIRARD. Birth unknown.
Married 6 NOV 1728 • La Sagne.
,
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Hi Keith,
Wow! This is more information than we ever hoped we might get. Thank you so much again for helping us. We truly appreciate all the time you have put in. If you get the opportunity, please also pass on our thanks to the lady who you previously mentioned, whose husband is possibly distantly related to the Tissots and Nicolets. If he is, then he is a very distant relative of ours. But wither way, without all of you this part of our family history would have remained a complete mystery to us. We have visited Switzerland a few times, but perhaps another trip one day will be to visit La Sagne and see where Laure and Juliette came from.
Clare and Pauline
Wow! This is more information than we ever hoped we might get. Thank you so much again for helping us. We truly appreciate all the time you have put in. If you get the opportunity, please also pass on our thanks to the lady who you previously mentioned, whose husband is possibly distantly related to the Tissots and Nicolets. If he is, then he is a very distant relative of ours. But wither way, without all of you this part of our family history would have remained a complete mystery to us. We have visited Switzerland a few times, but perhaps another trip one day will be to visit La Sagne and see where Laure and Juliette came from.
Clare and Pauline
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