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Selina HIRST/HURST

DaveHam9

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#1
Hello,

1881
RG11 Piece / Folio 0262 / 28 Page 49
Census Place London, Middlesex, England
Dwelling 172 St Pauls Road
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
Anne HARDING Head U Female 52 Newgate St, Middlesex, England
Selina HURST Boarder M Female 31 Warwick, England
1901
Class RG13 Piece 194 Folio 32 Page 27
CP Isington
RD Islington
Sub RD Islington South East
Selina H Hirst head wid age 56 occ mantel maker born Bidford Warwick
George E Hirst visitor age 70 occ woollen merchant born Halifax
I'd like a look up please for Selina in 1871 and 1891.

Spouse could be Thomas but I don't know when he died.

Regards,

Dave
 

josie7644

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#2
Hi Dave,

Not having much luck in the census, so trying a different tack, by searching for possible marriages!

Checked Hirst/Selina marriages, which are mainly in Yorkshire.

In view of the fact that you thought Selina’s husband was called Thomas, there is one possibility...

Selina Helena Webster – Thomas Hirst – Huddersfield – first Q of 1867 – vol 9a page 311

This may tie in with the fact that she called herself Selena H in 1901 and that she had a visitor from Yorkshire, also called Hirst.

There are three possible Hurst/Selina marriages:-

1) Selina Taylor – John Hurst – Wolverhampton – first Q 1866 – vol 6b page 589
2) Selina Elizabeth Fielder – George Hurst – Bethnal Green – second Q 1875 – vol 1c page 570
3) Selina White – Henry Hurst – Islington – second Q 1877 – vol 1b page 592

The second Selina is in Bethnal Town in 1871, but she was born in the City of London! (RG10/500/50/2)

The third Selina is with her husband and sister in the 1881 census in Islington. (RG11/259/102/9)

So that leaves the first one as a possibility! It’s also possible that Selina never married!

Sorry, not much help, but just giving you food for thought, (and the opportunity to eliminate the Huddersfield and Wolverhampton marriages)!

:) Josie
 

DaveHam9

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#3
Hello Josie,

Thank you very much.

I'm not sure how reliable the Thomas is for spouse. Selina does show a middle initial H. and as a widow in 1901 if we can believe both of those entries. Warwick appears twice so it looks not to be an error.

Both of my HIRST families are from WRY. One around Halifax and one around Huddersfield with George Edward being one of those in my tree. I'd not worry too much about Hirst/Hurst variation. It's not a reliable separator of families.

Ok west of Huddersfield:

Births Jun 1848
Webster Selina Helena Huddersfield 22 329

name: Selina Helena Webster
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 22 Jun 1848
baptism/christening place: Golcar, York, England
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Joseph Webster
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Louisa Allder
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: I04859-2
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1542168
reference number: page 77


Regards,

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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#4
Hmmmmmmmm.

Marriages Mar 1867
Beevers Martha Huddersfield 9a 311
HIRST Thomas Huddersfield 9a 311
Way Henry Huddersfield 9a 311
Webster Selina Helena Huddersfield 9a 311


groom's name: Henry Way
groom's birth date: 1843
groom's birthplace:
groom's age: 24
bride's name: Selina Helena Webster
bride's birth date: 1849
bride's birthplace:
bride's age: 18
marriage date: 17 Jan 1867
marriage place: Golcar, York, England
groom's father's name: William Way
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name: Joseph Webster
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: I04859-2
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1542168
reference number: page 8
 

DaveHam9

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#5
groom's name: Alfred Hirst
groom's birth date: 1847
groom's birthplace:
groom's age: 27
bride's name: Selena Lowden
bride's birth date: 1850
bride's birthplace:
bride's age: 24
marriage date: 04 Apr 1874
marriage place: Batley, York, England
groom's father's name: John Hirst
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name: James Lowden
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status: Single
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status: Single
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M01518-6
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1542209
reference number: D37/26 p43


Can't prove yet this one was born in Warwick. Some confusion as to it being Lowden or Sowden.

Marriages Mar 1865
Barlow Eliza Huddersfield 9a 373 ***
Hirst James Huddersfield 9a 373 ***
KAYE Enoch Huddersfield 9a 373
Shaw Selina Huddersfield 9a 373
Smith Elizabeth Huddersfield 9a 373


Marriages Dec 1867
BOLTON Selina Jane Huddersfield 9a 385 ***
HINCHCLIFFE Joseph Huddersfield 9a 385
HIRST Henry Huddersfield 9a 385 ***
KAYE Emma Huddersfield 9a 385

There are too many marriages and I can only match 50% of them.
 
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josie7644

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#6
Hm! A real toughie!

Just thought I'd try another angle!

In the 1851 census, there are just two Selinas born Warwick 1845 +/- 5 years.

They are Selina Smith born 1848, aged 3, living in Aston and Selina Wills, born 1847, aged 4, living in Warwick.

I chose the date 1845, because Selina declared herself to be 56 in 1901. (In 1881, probably the head of the household filled in the census return and guessed at Selina's age!)

All the best,

Josie
 

josie7644

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#7
groom's name: Alfred Hirst
groom's birth date: 1847
groom's birthplace:
groom's age: 27
bride's name: Selena Lowden
bride's birth date: 1850
bride's birthplace:
bride's age: 24
marriage date: 04 Apr 1874
marriage place: Batley, York, England
groom's father's name: John Hirst
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name: James Lowden
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status: Single
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status: Single
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M01518-6
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1542209
reference number: D37/26 p43


Can't prove yet this one was born in Warwick. Some confusion as to it being Lowden or Sowden.
Hi Dave,

Just checked this one in 1871, but she was born in Farnley, Yorkshire.

Class: RG10; Piece: 4540; Folio: 16; Page: 25

I think it says Sowden rather than Lowden, because the S of Sowden is like the S of Scholar. There is a Lupton entry just above it, and the two letters are clearly different.

Well, all the records will still be there tomorrow!

Good night,

Josie
 

DaveHam9

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#8
Hello Josie.

Thank you very much.

We can rule Selena Sowden out then. When I gave up on the marriage angle I started looking at births in Warwick 1845-1850 for Selina/Selena with a middle initial or name that could end up as an 'H' but that didn't help.

I'll have a look at the two you found in 1851.

Regards,

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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#9
Hello Josie,

I can't find a marriage 1860-1881 for either Selina/Selena Smith or Wills to a Hirst/Hurst.

I did find this one:

Marriages Sep 1874
Burdett John Charles Warwick 6d 756
CLINTON Henrietta Warwick 6d 756
Richards William Biven Warwick 6d 756
Wills Selina Warwick 6d 756

And I looked at these:

Marriages Dec 1870
Smith Selina Aston 6d 393

Marriages Dec 1872
SMITH Selina Aston 6d 500

Marriages Mar 1875
Smith Selina Aston 6d 419


What next?

Regards,

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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#10
These are the only Selina/Selena Hirst/Hurst deaths I can find registered in England 1901-1911.

Can this one be found in 1901? Yes

Deaths Mar 1904
Hirst Selina 63 Hull 9d 183


name: Selina Hirst
event: Census
event date: 31 Mar 1901
gender:
age: 62
relationship to head of household: Head
birthplace: Thorne, Yorkshire
record type: Household
registration district: Hull
sub-district: Myton
ecclesiastical parish: St Matthew
civil parish: Holy Trinity And St Mary
county: Hull, Myton, Holy Trinity And St Mary, Yorkshire (East Riding)


It can't be either of these two if age at death is correct:

Deaths Mar 1909
HIRST Selina 84 Huddersfield 9a 249

Deaths Mar 1910
HURST Selina 75 Derby 7b 340

So it looks as though my Selina died after 1911.
 
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josie7644

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#11
Marriages Mar 1865
Barlow Eliza Huddersfield 9a 373 ***
Hirst James Huddersfield 9a 373 ***
KAYE Enoch Huddersfield 9a 373
Shaw Selina Huddersfield 9a 373
Smith Elizabeth Huddersfield 9a 373


Marriages Dec 1867
BOLTON Selina Jane Huddersfield 9a 385 ***
HINCHCLIFFE Joseph Huddersfield 9a 385
HIRST Henry Huddersfield 9a 385 ***
KAYE Emma Huddersfield 9a 385

There are too many marriages and I can only match 50% of them.
Good morning Dave,

Just had a look on Yorkshire BMD to see if I could match up James Hirst and Henry Hirst to their spouses, but would you believe these two don't show up? :eek:

Using the free search facility on FMP, I discovered that in 1911, Selina Jane Hirst, aged 65 (born 1846) was in the same household as May Mellor aged 19 and Doris Shaw aged 12, in Huddersfield. However, I am unable to locate the same entry on the OTHER site! This may (or may not!) eliminate the 1865 marriage, but then the 1867 marriage set shows a Selina Jane! :(

Also had a look on Freebmd for a death of Selina Hurst/Hirst between 1901 and 1911, but nothing really seems to match!

If I can think of any more tactics, I'll get back to you!

In the meantime, good luck!

Josie :)
 

DaveHam9

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#12
Hello Josie,

The ones I've marked *** I have matched by finding the marriage on the new FS site. Lots of the marriages I could not find there so I gave up that exercise.

I agree there seems to be no death for Selina 1901-1911 yet the two in the 1911 index don't seem a good match either. I do have Mellor family connected to Hirst in my tree but to the Huddersfield not Halifax HIRSTs.

Regards,

Dave
 

josie7644

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#13
Hello Josie,

I can't find a marriage 1860-1881 for either Selina/Selena Smith or Wills to a Hirst/Hurst.

I did find this one:

Marriages Sep 1874
Burdett John Charles Warwick 6d 756
CLINTON Henrietta Warwick 6d 756
Richards William Biven Warwick 6d 756
Wills Selina Warwick 6d 756

And I looked at these:

Marriages Dec 1870
Smith Selina Aston 6d 393

Marriages Dec 1872
SMITH Selina Aston 6d 500

Marriages Mar 1875
Smith Selina Aston 6d 419


What next?

Regards,

Dave
Sorry Dave,

I completely missed this post when I was replying earlier!

Last night, I was trying to locate Selina Richards born Warwick, in the 1881 census, but no results! I also tried the Selina Burdett angle, but her husband was Henry!

Then I widened the search to Warwickshire, rather than Warwick, but again, there was nothing to suggest that WOW moment! :(

Now for my next trick.....

The only thing I can think of is that your Selina married, was widowed and then married a Hurst. This MIGHT explain why we can't match the names Smith and Wills!

Speak soon! :D

Josie
 

DaveHam9

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#14
Hello Josie,

Thanks for looking further.

I think the Smilth and Wills are ruled out.

I'm going to move on to two more Hirst family members that are proving just as difficult as Selina.

Regards,

Dave
 

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