South Lancashire Regiment April 1918

[gwenythgreen]

I have a Great Uncle who was killed on 11 April 1918, He is commemorated on the Loos memorial but from the information I believe that his body was never found. I believe that the memorial covers a large area around Calais but am curious as to how he met his death and where. He was a private serving with the South Lancashire Regiment. He was Herbert Thomas Bustin service number 235090. Can anyone help please?

 

[ianto73]

Gweny, I'm not sure if I can, but there is The King's Own Museum near me, and I can try to see the guy (he's not always around) during the next week, because he may be able to point us in the right direction. The sad part of all the regimental mergers and disbandments over the last 40 years means trying to find information for all those old regiments is a lot harder. I won't be going out of my way because I've found out that a very, very distant part of my clan from South Wales lost his life in WWII with this Lancashire Regiment of the museum, so bear with me.

 

[gwenythgreen]

Gweny, I'm not sure if I can, but there is The King's Own Museum near me, and I can try to see the guy (he's not always around) during the next week, because he may be able to point us in the right direction. The sad part of all the regimental mergers and disbandments over the last 40 years means trying to find information for all those old regiments is a lot harder. I won't be going out of my way because I've found out that a very, very distant part of my clan from South Wales lost his life in WWII with this Lancashire Regiment of the museum, so bear with me.

Thank you, My Great Uncle was from Oxford, Duke Street, He was I believe attached to South Lancashire a few years before his death, he shares his name with my father born 1913, I have always been curious about how my Great Uncle met his death but cannot find much info about him other than that he is also on the Wytham war memorial. My late father said he remembers my great uncle marching of to war with others from the village, he would only have been a toddler at the time!.

 

[romany rose]

Hello
Just a thought but have you tried the following
www.1914-1918.net
www.forceswarrecords.co.uk
also
www.lancashireinfantrymuseum.org.uk(thats his regiment )
Romany Rosex

 

[romany rose]

Also the TNA shows the list for the war diaries for the South Lancashire regiment 1914-1918,although it will more than likely not mention individuals it will state what the regiment was doing and where they were on the date your Gt Uncle died

Also found the following
Pte Herbert Thomas Bustin,K.I.A 11/4/1918,service number 235090,enlisted Oxford, served with the South Lancashire Regiment 1st/4th Battallion,commemorated at Loos ,memorial panel 76
son of Mr and Mrs H Bustin of Wytham,Oxfordhire,husband to Rosanna of 22 Duke St New Botley,Oxford
***
also check out the following
www.ancientfaces.com(this has the Bustin family history on it and mentions your Gt Uncle)
take care and Kushti Bok in your search
Romany Rose x

 

[gwenythgreen]

Thank you for those links Romany Rose, Lots to study there, Hopefully I will be able to find out his unit to find out a little more about him.

 

[gortonboy]

hi,,,not directly related to your query,,,but you can download his Soldiers Will here for 6 quid,,,,no idea whats in them,,,never seen one,,,but if you haven't seen it,,or got it,,,,thought you might like to add it to your family history.


https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?Surname=bustin&Year=1918

 

[romany rose]

Hiya
What a great link,
I have been veiwing this link to probates all morning and am completely hooked

Romany Rosex

 

[gwenythgreen]

hi,,,not directly related to your query,,,but you can download his Soldiers Will here for 6 quid,,,,no idea whats in them,,,never seen one,,,but if you haven't seen it,,or got it,,,,thought you might like to add it to your family history.


https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk/Wills?Surname=bustin&Year=1918

Hi
Thank You, I got his will last year, He left all his possessions to his wife, It looks as though the house in Duke Street, Oxford is still there as well. Does it make sense the number 1 / 4 before the South Lancashire Regiment, would that be his unit number? Thank you for all your help. with the information from the South Lancashire web site I may be able to trace more about his military career.

 

[gwenythgreen]

Givenchy The 55th Division, which included the 1/4th and 5th South Lancashires and the 1/4th Loyal North Lancashires, was in the line between Givenchy and Festubert when the Portuguese to their north collapsed, but the West Lancashire men held their positions on the southern flank of the assault with splendid valour and tenacity and refused to give ground. In this, their most famous action, the 55th Division fully sustained their hard-won reputation as an elite division. It was perhaps the finest Territorial Division action of the war. Nearby, the 1st Loyals were involved towards the end of the offensive when on 18th April they counter-attacked to restore the 1st Division main line.

I think this would have been my Great Uncles Division, We have no concept of the horror these poor men endured and their great bravery.

 

[gwenythgreen]

Hi,

I have been using Google maps to look around the area and now have another question, Great Uncle Herbert Thomas Bustin is commemorated on the Loos memorial, but would there be a grave, if so where would it be as I have found a cemetery in Givenchy it is the 'Guards cemetery at windy corner, I know some of you are experts in the military history of World War 1 so hope you can help me, Thank you.

 

[ianto73]

From my experience of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission information, had there been a grave, those details would have been listed rather than Panel 76 on the Loos Memorial. During my research into the one disaster that involved my late uncle during the 2nd World War, there were over 400 unidentified bodies buried across a wide area of France mainly in small local cemeteries, and this would probably be true of virtually all the War Graves connected with WWI. The only positive information your ancestors could have had was in the original letters received from the War Office at the time. I have to admit that a big lump hit my throat when I did my research because for many families, they never really knew what happened to their relative. Sorry to be gloomy! Brian

 

[gwenythgreen]

From my experience of the Commonwealth War Graves Commission information, had there been a grave, those details would have been listed rather than Panel 76 on the Loos Memorial. During my research into the one disaster that involved my late uncle during the 2nd World War, there were over 400 unidentified bodies buried across a wide area of France mainly in small local cemeteries, and this would probably be true of virtually all the War Graves connected with WWI. The only positive information your ancestors could have had was in the original letters received from the War Office at the time. I have to admit that a big lump hit my throat when I did my research because for many families, they never really knew what happened to their relative. Sorry to be gloomy! Brian

Thank you, Is there any way I can trace a copy of the original letter please? My Father was estranged from the family and he and most of the older generation of the family have passed away now.

 

[ianto73]

Sadly, I doubt if such letters have been retained for WWI. When one thinks of the numbers involved, such an archive would have been hard to maintain in those days. I offered a copy of my original letters from the War Office to the British Army Museum but they advised me they did not have the space for such personal folders. I doubt if The Imperial War Museum would have anything, as they rely on people like me sending them in, which is what I did with our family's paperwork. The numbers 1/4 etc were quite normal during WWI for Infantry Regiments. I shall PM during the week with some information on what I uncovered regarding my late uncle, it may give you an idea of how the system operated, but of course WWI and WWII could have been different.
Brian

 

[jay]

There may well be a grave but many of the Great War graves have no names on them as there were no means of identification or their bodies remain undiscovered. On the Menin Gate at Ypres are the names of the soldiers who were killed in action in the Ypres salient but whose bodies were not found. When someone is found, identified and buried their name is removed from the Gate.

Jay.

 

[gwenythgreen]

Thank you, maybe he will be found one day, I know that they found some last year and used dna to identify the remains.

Gwen