Stephen GIFFORD

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

Please see what else you can find on Stephen GIFFORD.

WO 97 Royal Hospital Chelsea: Soldiers Service Documents
Subseries within WO 97 1760-1854: discharge papers arranged by regiment, but each described at item level. (WO 97/1-1271)
WO 97/699 57th Foot: Gar - Jac

WO 97/699/14
STEPHEN GIFFORD
Born RAMSGATE, Kent
Served in 57th Foot Regiment
Discharged aged 39
1803-1818

Division within WO Records of the Royal Chelsea and Kilmainham Hospitals
WO 121 Royal Hospital, Chelsea: Discharge Documents of Pensioners
WO 121/204 Certificates of Service and related correspondence. (Described at item level).

STEPHEN GIFFORD.
Born [Not Known].
Served in 57th Foot Regiment; Royal Veteran Battalion.
Discharged aged [Not Known].
Original certificate of discharge missing.
See film image 772.
Covering dates 1818

02/04/1821 GIFFORD STEPHEN MARGARET CLARK/FR1128 M Paisley Burgh or Low /RENFREW 573/003 0050 0197

Stephen Gifford Soldier 4th Royal Battalion of Veterans Margaret Clark in this parish
Married on 2 April 1821 by Rev. Robert Burns

Low Church Paisley, Renfrew, Scotland Batch: M119625

1841
Address: Causeyside, Paisley Low
Stephen Gifford 55, Plasterers Lab, b. England
Jean [?] Gifford 40 Warp winder
Isabella Gifford 18
Mary Gifford 15
Sera Gifford 11
Margret Gifford 8
Daniel Gifford 8 Months

1851
Address: 99 Causeyside Street, Paisley Low
Stephen Gifford 65, lab., b. England
Margaret Gifford 49
Margaret Gifford 18
Daniel Gifford 10
Cathren Hamilton 22, lodger


Stephen died in 1856 although listed as 31 Dec 1854 in index of pre 1855 deaths.

27/06/1856 GIFFORD STEPHEN M ABBEY /RENFREW 559/00 0278

1856 June 27 Lair 88 New G Stephen Gifford labourer 22 Causeyside St England Palsy 71

Thanks.

Regards,

Dave

 

[gortonboy]

just 2 pages for this guy

b1779 st lawrence,ramsgate,kent
enlisted for 57th foot,,25th november 1803
discharged 1818 due to rheumatism and general debility brought on by fatigue and wound in right leg recieved on the 16th may 1811 at the battle of albuhera.
he was 5ft 5,,dark brown hair,,hazel eyes,,dark complexion
a labourer by trade.

 

[gortonboy]

The regiment started out as the 59th Regiment of Foot raised in Gloucester in 1755. After the disbandment of the 50th Regiment of Foot and the 51st Regiment of Foot in 1756, it became the 57th Regiment of Foot. In 1782, it was given a county connection, becoming the "57th (the West Middlesex) Regiment of Foot".[1]

The 57th Regiment earned their nickname of "the Die Hards" after their participation in the Battle of Albuera, one of the bloodiest battles of the Peninsular War, fought on the 16 May 1811. The commanding officer of the 57th, Colonel Inglis, was struck down by a charge of canister shot which hit him in the neck and left breast. He refused to be carried to the rear for treatment, but lay in front of his men calling on them to hold their position and when the fight reached its fiercest cried, "Die hard the 57th, die hard!".[2] The casualties of the 57th were 422 out of the 570 men in the ranks and 20 out of the 30 officers.[1] The Allied commander of the Anglo-Portuguese force Field Marshal Beresford wrote in his dispatch, "our dead, particularly the 57th Regiment, were lying as they fought in the ranks, every wound in front".".

 

[gortonboy]

Peninsula Medal Roll 1793-1814
GIFFORD, Stephen

he is recorded on this medal roll as having 2 clasps A AND V........

A would be for Albuhera,,,,,as for the V,,,,?

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

Thank you very much. I'll now see if I can find his parents.

I've come across "the Die Hards" before but can't think of who else in my tree would have been at that battle.

I have these notes in my database:

Stephan GIFFARD
c. 25 Mar 1786 St Laurence (Thanet), Kent, England
Robert & Mary - Private IGI

Ramsgate is a sub-district of Thanet (Isle of Thanet)

--------
http://home.comcast.net/~pgifford11/GIFFORD CLUSTERS.htm

The earliest known Gifford family in this region lived in the parish of Ilsington, but the name became less concentrated in the 18th century and later. As elsewhere in Devonshire, the name was pronounced with a soft "G".

The data presented here suggest that Giffords (evidently pronouncing their name with a soft “G”) were somewhat scattered in the 16th century, with concentrations in the eastern part of the county. By the 18th century, one family, using a hard “G,” was concentrated in the Isle of Thanet, in the Northeast. This cluster then spread out somewhat by 1841.

=====

A person joined the 4th Royal Veteran Battalion on its formation at York in November 1819 and served in the said Corps until its Reduction on the 31 day of May 1821 in the Barracks of Ayr.

Regards,

Dave

 

[gortonboy]

the V is probably for Vitoria

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

"The Military General Service Medal will be the medal awarded, however, no bars (or devices as they were known then) would have been awarded between 1801 and 1806. Battles of the Peninsular War were awarded bars to the medal, and based on the letters given, are as follows:-

V = VIMEIRA 21 AUGUST 1808 *** it looks like a typo on the web site - VIMIERA ***
B = BENEVENTE 20 DECEMBER 1808
B = BUSACO 27 SEPTEMBER 1810
B = BARROSA 5 MARCH 1811
B = BADAJOZ 17 MARCH - 6 APRIL 1812
V = VITTORIA 21 JUNE 1813

I ?J = JAVA ? - it could be this one"


That's without knowledge of what regiments fought at those battles.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

Yes, because I can't see the 57th listed at Vimiera.

Depending on your source, there are several ways to spell the name of the battle. Oman spells it Vimiero. The official spelling for British Battle Honours is Vimiera. Georges Six, the French biographer, spells it Vimeïro. On the Portuguese monument commemorating the battle, it is spelled Vimeiro and modern road maps also spell it that way.

Yes, 57th is listed and another typo - it is Vitoria.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

Re:
Stephen Gifford Soldier 4th Royal Battalion of Veterans Margaret Clark in this parish
Married on 2 April 1821 by Rev. Robert Burns


I presume because I've asked once before elsewhere that it would be almost impossible to find out when he joined and was discharged from the Royal Veterans.

A mate who married his spouse's sister was also in the Royal Veterans and also married in Paisley. The two families are buried together in Paisley.

I've found nothing to indicate the Royal Veterans were stationed in Paisley, Renfrew.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

Stephen's mate was Thomas ANGEL.

08/05/1818 ANGEL THOMAS MARY CLARK/FR402 M Paisley Middle /RENFREW 573/002 0020 0148
1818 May 3 Thomas Angel Private 40th Reg & Mary Clark 3/1
Married by ?? Proclamation 8th May


1841 Census Angle - Paisley Low - 12 Prussia St. Vol 4, page 25
(Ed 2 ends at 9 Prussia St & Ed 3 10-12 Prussia St)
(East side of 25 Causeyside to Gordon's Lane)(Prussia st no longer exists)
Thomas 55 Pensioner
Mary 45
Thomas 20 Cloth Lapper
Sarah 15
Samuel 12
Stephen 7

Abbey 08/07/1848 Thomas ANGEL *** death or burial or hire of mort cloth
Thomas Angel, 4th Battalion of Veterans, resided at Prussia Street, born in England, age 71

Paisley Abbey Churchyard S2:425
Thos. Angel & Steven Gifford & their wives & chn.


Thomas Angel, served 1803-1821 in the 40th and the 4th Royal Veteran, was 36 when discharged in 1821, and was born Ashburton, Devonshire.

Peninsula Medal Roll 1793-1814
Name Regiment
ANGEL, Thomas 40TH FOOT
Name - Rank - No of Clasps - Particulars of Clasps
ANGEL Thomas - 6 V J B B I? V

The 2nd last one is either an I or a J.

Battles of the Peninsular War were awarded bars to the medal, and based on the letters given, are as follows:-
V = VIMEIRA 21 AUGUST 1808 *** Vimiera 40th
B = BENEVENTE 20 DECEMBER 1808 *** 10th& 18th Hussars
B = BUSACO 27 SEPTEMBER 1810 *** 40th
B = BARROSA 5 MARCH 1811 *** not 40th
B = BADAJOZ 17 MARCH - 6 APRIL 1812
V = VITTORIA 21 JUNE 1813 *** Vitoria 40th


On the Waterloo Medal Roll - 1st Battalion 40th Regiment of Foot - Captain R. P. Stewart's Company.

So taking the clasps in order:

V Vimiera ** 2nd Brigade: General Ronald Ferguson included 40th

J ?

B Busaco ** 4th Division: 2nd Brigade: commanded by Colonel Kemmis: included 1st/40th

B ? Badajoz 40th ??

I/J ?

V Vitoria ** 4th Division included 40th

Regards,

Dave

 

[gortonboy]

hi,,cant add much to what you already know

enlisted in Somerset 24th april 1803
discharged 24th june 1821
5ft 5 3/4 ,,brown hair,,grey eyes..dark complexion. a labourer by trade.

 

[gortonboy]

looking at the original entry for the medal roll...i think the j is actually a T....for Talavera

i can see V T B B J V

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

Thank you very much. That's good info to have. Thomas is my ggg grandfather.

I've searched and searched and it seems the closest I can come to the mention of the 40th at Badajoz is a mention of 4th Division: commanded by Major General Lowry Cole.

I've had no luck so far with clasps J and I/J.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

Oh, thanks. That would make more sense.

So what is the J?

And re this: On the Waterloo Medal Roll - 1st Battalion 40th Regiment of Foot - Captain R. P. Stewart's Company.

Any way of getting any more info?

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

Talavera - 4th Division Sir Alexander Campbell - Kemmiss' Brigade included 1/40th

So thanks for finding it was a T.

Regards,

Dave

 

[gortonboy]

Hello gortonboy,

Oh, thanks. That would make more sense.

So what is the J?

And re this: On the Waterloo Medal Roll - 1st Battalion 40th Regiment of Foot - Captain R. P. Stewart's Company.

Any way of getting any more info?

Regards,

Dave

Again,,looking at the original entry,,the j could be an s
re the waterloo medal roll,,,what is it you are looking for?

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

http://www.qlrmuseum.co.uk/Short History.htm#THE_PENINSULA_WAR_1808-14

The 'J' falls between Badajoz and Vitoria and the 40th was at Salamanca so what is the J? There is only about a one year gap.

Regards,

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

OK That seems to have answered my question.

If it looks like an S then it must be Salamanca.

Regards,

Dave

 

[gortonboy]

just thought i would mention this
on the service record it seems that Thomas was awarded a period of 2 years to count toward his pension for Waterloo......so he served 20 years,,,,,when in fact,,he only served 18 ? his name does not appear on the waterloo medal roll.

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello gortonboy,

Thanks. I'm not sure where this bit came from:

On the Waterloo Medal Roll - 1st Battalion 40th Regiment of Foot - Captain R. P. Stewart's Company.

I did go to FMP during the matches England played in the World Cup and found a bit of info but not sure if it included that.

I'll catch up with you at the weekend. 11:20 pm here. G'nite.

Regards,

Dave