The Huguenots who settled in England in the late 1600s.

[benny1982]

Hi

Have any of you had the luck of researching French Huguenot ancestors? I have. Mine came to Spitalfields in London in the late 1600s after the Revocation of the Edict Of Nantes.

They settled in Spitalfields, Stepney, Whitechapel and Bethnal Green, plus some in Soho and Covent Garden but mine were all East End based.

My 5xgreat grandparents John Auber born 1783 and Elizabeth Helsodn born 1784 have a few great grandparents who were French Huguenot immigrants.

The registers of the French churches give the places of origin of the parents of the baptised baby and also for marriages. They also list godparents and sometimes grandparents. My 6xgreat grandmother Susan Fradin was born in 1765 in Spitalfields and even though she was the granddaughter/great granddaughter of the original refugees, she was still baptised at a French church.

Her grandparents were born in 1700-1715 and even though 3 were born in London, their parents were the original immigrants and their places of origin and parents names are listed. I think the 4th one was actually French.

Ben

 

[leefer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Spitalfields_market

Was delivering here yesterday Ben..the building is great though the actual market is a mixture of new and old..across the road was a pub called the Ten Barrells that went back to the 1600s...it was really weird,i try and go back in time when ime at these places...no doubt the road i was driving on was close to your Hugeonots stomping ground...regards Lee.

 

[benny1982]

Hi leefer

I have been there as well. Nice place. Since I found out about my Huguenot ancestors I have walked around Spitalfields and Shoreditch. The Huguenots left their mark on Spitalfields as many streets have French names such as Fleur De Lis and Fournier Street.

I think a lot of Huguenots worked from home, weaving and cotton winding in their looms. That was probably sweaty but at least you could boil a cup of tea when you wanted on the fireplace.

Ben

 

[PaulWi62]

Hello

John Auber and Elizabeth Helsdon (six generations back) are my ancestors too. (I've had this verified by someone else recently).

I'm going along to the Huguenot Society's Library next week to find out what they hold on the Aubers, Fradins, Morins, Pequins, Hallots.

Incidentally, understand that Elizabeth's parents came from Norwich. Her mother was a Harbord. I recall seeing a reference to Harbord being a Huguenot (or Walloon name) too, possibly also Helsdon. Can you throw any light on this?

PaulWi62

 

[benny1982]

Hi Paul

Wow. Cousin Paul. Yes Elizabeth Helsdon born in 1784 in Bethnal Green, London was born to a Norfolk born father Dennis Helsdon. Dennis married Susan Fradine in 1784 in Stepney when she was pregnant with Elizabeth. Dennis was born in Norfolk in 1756 son of Dennis and Elizabeth Helsdon formerly Harbord.

John Auber was born in 1783 in Shoreditch, London to Samuel Auber and Elizabeth Newman. Samuel was born in 1750 in Mile End New Town son of Samuel and Susannah Auber.

I have lots of Auber, Fradine, Helsdon and Morin info to share.

Ben

 

[PaulWi62]

Hello Ben

Yes, I think we are cousins.

My maternal grandmother's paternal grandmother was Matilda Auber of Hoxton. You probably know that Matilda was John Auber's and Elizabeth Helsdon's granddaughter (it's a bit complicated here by Matilda's mother Emma not appearing to be properly married).

Having been to the Huguenot Library I found that the extant La Patente records had the Aubers well represented, but I couldn't make a bridging link for them between the early 1700s and John Auber in 1780s. As far as I could glean there were one or maybe two related Auber groups in the Spitalfields/ Stepney area in the early 1700s of whom Jacob Auber (weaver) said to be from Beuville just north of near Caen (rather than a tiny one between Dieppe and Rouen in the Pays de Caux/ Seine Maritime) and his wife Elizabeth Bosquain/Bosquet/Bosceau who seem to have been the senior family. By the 1770s his children and at least one grandson were impoverished and seeking help from the French Hospital.

The Fradins and Morins were numerous. The two families obviously were in contact socially early on. I haven't finished looking for the Morins (or Pequins - probably from Tardiere in the Vendee or the Halots probably of Lunere [Lunneray], Seine Maritime).

However, the senior Morin seems to be Samuel Morin, silk weaver, of Monsireigne (5-10m north-west of Mouilleron en Pared) and Marie Bouron of Ste Maurice Desnoue (south of Tardiere) (dated May 1713 at baptism of son Jean). However in 1706 Samuel is described as born in Chautefoin (probably Chantefoin, south-east corner of Monsireigne commune towards Mouilleron en Pareds). In Aug 1734 at baptism of Jean, father Jean Morin (Samuel's son?), is described as being from Mouilleron en Bas Poitou. Marie Morin is godmother. I'm not clear what is going on here, but the region represented - south-eastern Vendee - is obvious.

The Fradins are well represented but disappear from a mention in the La Patente records between 1722 and 1760, which means I could not check the parentage of Francois Fradin, husband of Eizabeth Morin. I would guess that Francois was the son of Jacques Fradin and Jeanne Bluteau, both from Moncoutant (Deux-Sevres), but only about 5-10m east of Tardiere and Mouilleron en Pared.

I would like to know if you agree Ben, or could fill the gaps in.

PaulW

 

[benny1982]

Hi Paul

Francis Fradin was born in 1731 to Claudius and Sarah Fradine. Claudius was born in about 1700 in Westminster and his father Claude was the original French immigrant.

I would be more than happy to share the info I have with you.

Ben

 

[PaulWi62]

Hi Ben

That would be really helpful. I am determined to pin all the connections down.
I've had professional work down over the past few years on varous branches of my families. But it was only a hunch in an ideal moment a year ago, that I typed 'Matilda Auber Hoxton' into Google and found your work (I think) and realised immediately she was of the same family.

Incidentally, Matilda married a Rowley (sometimes shown wrongly on family trees as Knowley - it isn't!). Rowley may be a name local to Staffordshire, but on the other hand, I did find a Huguenot related website called roelli.org - where there was a reference to Susanne Fradin (daughter of Francois and Elizabeth Morin, born 1765) - who is certainly an ancestor. I am not sure why she was mentioned, among others, but it was intriguing. The lady who did the initially work for me, will be reporting back sometime this month on the Rowleys.

Back to the Fradines. I would like to know which churches the Fradins (ditto the Aubers) were attending from the early 1720s to 1760, when Susanne Fradin's parents return to using La Patente church. That would be helpful.

What I can say is that Jacques Fradin and his wife Jeanne Bluteau in the c.1710-20s are almost certainly part of Susanne's family because of a 'Borit' baptism connection of June 1717 (the Borits were clearly related to the Bluteaus by marriage and a J. Fradin was also present). Two Borits then turn up as godparents at the baptisms of Susanne's elder brothers in 1760 and 1763.

So what I would like to know is where Claudius, Claude and Sarah Fradine fit into the picture. What churches were they using? Westminster is the rather upmarket end for the Huguenots - and that could make some sense from what I can see on the web about some of the Fradin clan (eg Geneanet).

Have you noticed that on 22 August 1714 that Gabriel Fradin and Samuel Morin and Marie Anne Morin (son and daughter of Samuel Morin and Marie Morin) were being baptised together at La Patente. Gabriel Grelier was godfather to both sets of babies. A Gabriel Grelier of Moncoutant is listed as being condemned to exile in absentia in the list Protestant Galley Slaves on the 'Musee du Desert' website 'avant 1720'.

The same website also mentions 'Pierre Poigneau, born about 1672 son of Jean and Marie Fradin. Weaver. Of Moncoutant. Died in hospital 1700.

Also listed is Jean Pougnol/ Pugnol/ Pougeau. Born about 1678, son of Jaques and Catherine Moret. Glover. Camisard (!). Of Moncoutant. Condemned at Montpellier for carrying arms 1705. Freed 1716.

Also, Francois Cornuau. Born about 1652, son of Jacques and Suzanne Pardin or Fradin, husband of Perinne Pradin, 'parent' [probably means relative] of galley slaves Pougneau and Drillaud. Labourer. Of Saint-Jouin de Milly [tiny place just north-west of Moncoutant]. Condemned 1701. Died in hsopital 1702.

So what are the connections? Well in:

28 Oct 1708: Marriage at la Patente: Jacques Pougneau, born Moncoutant, Poitou, son of Jean Pougneau and Elizabeth Cornuau living on Fleet Street. Weaver. Marries Jeanne Louise Aube (with acute accent) native of London, daugther of Gabriel Aube et Lousie Rosee (a surname name that appears in June 1710 as Margueritte De rossier (signed Rosie) as a godmother alongside Daniel Auber godfather. Stepney. Witnesses: Jean Pougneau, Charles Poigneau, F. Aube, Louise Obe (accent), Jeanne Auber (accent), Daniel Michaux, Elizabeth Bernardin, Marie Magdeleine Aube (accent) (soeur).

Previously in March 1704 Daniel Michaux and Jeanne Auber are god parents to Daniel Abraham Aubair son of Jacob Aubair et Elizabeth Bosquin, natives of Caen, Normandy. Then in Feb 1707 Marie Anne Michaux's parents are Daniel Michaux weaver and Jeanne Auber of Black Eagle Street, Stepney. Ditto in August 1708 for Susanne Micheaux. I think therefore that Jeanne Auber is likely to be Jacob Auber's sister or a close relation.

Later in Nov 1723 Henry Roulet of Moncountant, son of widower Pierre Roulet and Perrine Fradin to Esther Bonnet of 'same place', daughter of widower Jean Bonnet and widow Charlotte Malet. Witness: J. Fradin.

The Musee du Desert website mention two Fradins: Clement Fradin. Born about 1665. 'Marchand'. Of Mirabaux [Loiret]. Condemned at Grenoble 'a 10 ans pour exil' in 1686. Freed 1687.

Jean Fradin. Aubergiste. Des Herbier [Vendee]. Condemned in his absence to exile at Poitiers May 1700.

So Ben, as you can see, there is an early connection between a branch of the Fradins, a branch of the Aubers (however spelt), and also branch of the Morins. However, the connection between the Fradins and the Aubers seems to be in London, which is hardly surprising if the Aubers are from Normandy and the Fradins from Poitou.

Look forward to hearing from you and would be pleased to exchange information with you. Sorry this is so long! I will be returning to the Huguenot Library as soon as I can.

PaulW

 

[leefer]

Good reading you two....very interesting,look forward to reading more.

 

[PaulWi62]

Hi

This is a follow up to my own post really. I've done a bit more of a cursory trawl through Geneanet looking for Pougneaus (because it is a slightly unusual name) in the Deux Sevres and especially Moncoutant district. What I found was the Pougneaus and other families with names that were in London using La Patente around 1700-1725 continued to inter-marry locally in Deux Sevres from the first half of the C18th right through to the second world war, these included the Fradins, Grelliers, Guerins (a Jeanne Guerin was godmother to Jeanne Susanne Fradin, daughther of Jacques Fradin and Jeanne Bluteau at La Patente December 1722) and the Micheneaus/nots (I suspect these are the same family as the Mich(e)auxs who attended La Patente for Pougneau and/or Auber family weddings and christenings in London in the 1700-10 period.)

I am pretty satisfied where the Fradins orginate (unless someone knows otherwise), but I am not clear how Claude and Claudius Fradin and co relate to Jacques Fradin and Jeanne Bluteau in London around 1700. Brothers, cousins, uncles, nephews - or an unrelated family which seems unlikely? A similar point applies to Jacob Auber and John Auber - who were the one or two 'lost' middle generations in the mid C18th? Perhaps Ben you may know.

After that, I'll have a closer look at the Morins and Pequins (also Peguin) of the Vendee a few miles west of Moncoutant and maybe the Pequins' Halot relations from Lunneray, Seine Maritime.

PaulWi

 

[benny1982]

Hi Paul

A Francis Fradin was admitted to the French Hospital in 1801 aged 75 years. This might tie in with my Francis Fradins baptism in 1731. Trouble is this Francis Fradin mentioned Poitou and the words are in French. He died in June 1803. I hope it is the one who was born in 1731 son of Claudius and Sarah.

Jean Morin was from France. He was born in about 1695 in Moilleron Poitou and moved to London, England in about 1715 and was admitted into the church in January 1717. He then wed Elizabeth pequin in 1728 and died in 1750 in Bethnal Green.

Ben

 

[benny1982]

Hi

Here is the hospital entry for Francis Fradin

FRADIN, François. Inmate.
e. Sept. 19, 1801 (L: Oct.l). B/A "à notre Econome", d. June 15, 1803.
RA: Oct.26, 1799 "Fradin François ouvrier en Soye Réfugié de Moncoutant en Bas-Poitou après
avoir été Trois Ans en Prison pour fait de Religion, membre de l'Eglise Françoise depuis
49 Ans - Le suppliant âgé de 75 ne pouvant plus vaquer à son Métier, vous prie de l'admettre
&c Le cas Certifié par L. Mercier pasteur P Beuzeville P Dufour [at side:] Admis le 19
Sept*" 18O1".
RI_(2): No.966.

That needs translating.

This is my Francis Fradin's baptism. He was the son of Claudius and Sarah. I think Claudius was born in London in about 1700 and it was his father Claude that was the original French immigrant although I dont know where in France he originated.

FRANCIS FRADIN


Birth:
25 JUN 1731
Christening:
09 JUL 1731 Saint Martin Pomeroy, London, London, England

Do you think this is the same Francis Fradin as the one who died in 1803???

Ben

 

[bronhill]

Hi Benny,

Read with interest your info on the Jacques of London. Mine are from London late 1700's. Definitive info- Robert Jacques and Ann 1829 who emigrated to Australia. Also a Joseph, Sarah, William Thomas. Records seem to indicate Robert 1786 parents Isaac and Susanna m 1873 ( found a record and think these might be the right ones.Would you have come across any of these? They wer e bricklayers and stonemasons. Are the ones in Westminster linked to the ones in Spitalfields and if so how? I am a tad far away to visit the Huguenot centre:'(
A Guilielme popped up mid 1600s as London but that a long way from 1786! Big gap to fill if in fact they are in fact forbears and it not just a long bow! Records show they had Thomas 1662, Guilielmus 1664, Richardus 1668 and Robertus 1670. St Martin in Field. I would really welcome information or sites which may be able to provide info as ancestry site has taken me back only as far as 1780s.
Must have been hundreds of Jacques who emigrated from France in the 1600s or did some emigrate earlier back in the 1300s? Am really krrn to know more...

 

[susanwillis59]

re ie your previous replys, when i did the husbands tree, they were all watermen and lightermen on the river thames, but trawling through the london records and such , i came across a lot of stuff re the huguenots, seems a lot of them where craftsmen/silversmiths it made interesting reading,seem to remember they all had there own quarter in the city. suexx

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello,

I can add two names from my tree. GANDON and PERDRIAU from La Rochelle. Possibly even MARTIN.

Regards,

Dave

 

[benny1982]

Someone has been researching the Huguenots immensely and the Kray Twins have Huguenot ancestors and:-

Their 3xgreat grandmother was Mary Obey who wed John Diggens in 1804. My 5xgreat grandfather Samuel Obey was a witness to the wedding and he was a witness to several of his other childrens weddings. When John and Mary Diggens daughter wed in 1830 a William Obey was a witness whose signature matches that of my ancestors brother when he wed in 1799.

 

[BarbaraA]

Would like to know about the Gordeliers who settled in Faversham, Kent. Sarah Louisa was my gt gt g and her father was Jean-Francois, 1759-1830, a currier. How can I access French records? I believe they came from Picardy.

 

[jay]

Good reading you two....very interesting,look forward to reading more.

Just goes to show how worthwhile membership of FHUK can be. Looking forward to the next instalment too.

 

[benny1982]

Yes, FHUK and other genealogy forums can be a mine of info for people who are also searching the same family and type in names to Google and come up with hits from these sites where people have researched them.

 

[a1emslie]

Hi there!
I have recently come across the above posts, and am particularly interested in the Fradin family, as I believe that I am descended from Francis Fradin who married Mary Ann Fearon at St Andrews' Holborn in 1761. Claudius Fradin was a witness, and certainly the father to a Francis Fradin.
Has anyone, by any chance sorted out the relationship between the Francis who married a Morin, and mine?
Any clues or hints would be very much appreciated.
Thanks so much,
Annabel.