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Thomas CLEAVE

DaveHam9

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#1
Hello,

1861
RG9/1532 Place: Liskeard -Cornwall Enumeration District: 1
Civil Parish: Boconnoc Ecclesiastical Parish: -
Folio: 7 Page: 10 Schedule: 39
Address: Boconnoc Garden
Surname First name(s) Rel Status *** Age Occupation Where Born Remarks
CLEAVE Thomas Head W M 63 Gardener To Hon. G M Fortescue Cornwall - St Kew
COLLINS Maria C Dau W F 36 Devon - Pilton
COLLINS Thomas C Grnson - M 12 Scholar Cornwall - St Austell
COLLINS John Grnson - M 6 Scholar Cornwall - St Austell
HEPPER Arthur Servnt U M 34 Under Gardener Devon - Tiverton

possible
Deaths Jun Qtr 1861
Cleave Thomas St.Columb 5c 70

I'm wondering if that is the right death.

Can Thomas be found in 1871 or can another Thomas be found in 1861 in St Columb who would fit? I can't see a burial on FS. I've not browsed the parish registers yet.

Thanks.

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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#2
And this one to rule out:

Deaths Sep Qtr 1876
Cleave Thomas 76 St. Columb 5c 65

That RD has lots of parishes to browse. :rolleyes:

Rules that one out:

Name: Thomas Cleave
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Male
Age: 71
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birthplace: St Breock, Cornwall
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: St Columb Major
Sub-District: Padstow
Parish: St Breock
County: Cornwall
Household Gender Age Birthplace
Head Thomas Cleave M 71 St Breock, Cornwall
Wife Mary Williams Cleave F 66 St Tudy, Cornwall
Granddaughter Mary Cleave F 19 Egloshayle, Cornwall
Grandson Charles Nettleton M 7 Plymouth, Devonshire
Servant Arthur Burdon M 30 St Breock, Cornwall
Servant Emily Wills F 18 St Minver, Cornwall
Servant Leyphena K Wills F 15 St Minver, Cornwall
 
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DaveHam9

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#3
1871
RG10/2244
Enumeration District 1
Civil Parish of Boconnoc
Folio 9 Page 9
42,Boconnoc Gardens,1,Charles Lee,Head,M,34,,Gardener,Hitcham Buckinghamshire
 

DaveHam9

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#4
Name: Thomas Cleave
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1861
Gender: Male
Age: 70
Relationship to Head of Household: Head
Birthplace: Maker, Cornwall
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: St Germans
Sub-District: 1 Anthony
Ecclesiastical Parish:
Parish: Maker
Residence County: Cornwall

Deaths Mar Qtr 1869
Cleave Thomas 78 St. Germans 5c 26
 

DaveHam9

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#5
I can't see any Thomas CLEAVE in St Columb in 1861.

There are 4x Thomas in 1861 not in St Columb who could be this one with no age listed:

Deaths Jun Qtr 1861
Cleave Thomas St. Columb 5c 70


A tree has the death for Elizabeth in 1855 but that does not seem to fit. Death for Thomas in 1861 but no location given.
 
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#6
Hi Dave
Thomas Cleave (christened 26 Feb 1797 at St Kew, Cornwall), gardener at Boconnoc in Cornwall, was my wife's great grandfather.
He married Elizabeth Docton (christened 28 Apr 1871 in St Issey, Cornwall; died 29 Jul 1860; buried 2 Aug 1860 at St Saviours Churchyard, Boconnoc).
Their children were:
1. Maria Caroline Cleave, b. c1825 at Pilton/Barnstaple, Devon (She married John Collins in 1848).
2. Caroline Maria Cleave, b. 1829 at Calverton, Nottinghamshire (She married James Brown in 1852).
3. Robert Cleave, b. 1832 also at Calverton
4. Elizabeth Caroline Cleave, b. 1833 also at Calverton (She married Andrew Scott in 1865. They had 5 children, all born at Harlaxton/Grantham, Lincolnshire between 1868 to 1878, before the family emigrated to New Zealand c.1882. My wife descends from this branch. Andrew & Elizabeth in fact owned a building in Bluff, NZ which they named Boconnoc House. The family name of Docton was remembered in the naming of a grandson, Percy John Docton Scott).

My initial enquiries suggested Thomas Cleave died and was buried at Boconnoc about 1860, but I now think this arose from the fact that his wife died then - perhaps the death was recorded something like "Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Cleave" - and this was wrongly recorded as Thomas' burial. Thomas was obviously still alive in 1861 Census (see your initial post).

I suspect Thomas Cleave in his later years, may have lived at Grantham/Harlaxton to be with or near his daughter Elizabeth and her family, as the Parish Records Collection has a Thomas Cleave buried 28 Oct 1870 at St Mary & St Peter, Harlaxton, aged 73 (therefore born 1797, an exact match). However I haven't been able to confirm whether this is our Thomas Cleave. Perhaps you have the resources to do so?
May I also ask what your interest in Thomas Cleave, gardener at Boconnoc, is?
regards
John
 

DaveHam9

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#7
Hello John and welcome to the Forum


Thank you very much for the details. I may or may not be able to confirm the death but I hope a member here is able to find the necessary details.

It's a side branch of my tree. An aunt traces her line back to Caroline Maria BROWN daughter of Caroline Maria.

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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I had these:

John Cleave & Catherine Webber
12 Dec 1796 St. Kew, Cornwall, England

Thomas Cleave bap. 15 May 1797 St. Kew, Cornwall, England
John Cleave & Catherine
 

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#9
1881
RG11 Piece 1424 Folio 86 Page 7
Civil Parish: Little Berkhampstead
County: Hertfordshire
Registration District: Berkhampstead
Address: Woodcock Lodge
Andrew Scott Head Mar M 44 Farmer Of 246 Acres Employ 1 Man And 1 Boy Scotland
Elizabeth Carlne Scott Wife Mar F 43 Calverton, Nottinghamshire
George Andrew Scott Son M 12 Scholar Harlaxton, Lincolnshire
Robert Thomas Scott Son M 9 Scholar Harlaxton, Lincolnshire
Louisa Elizabth Scott Dau F 7 Scholar Harlaxton, Lincolnshire
Gertrude Florce Scott Dau F 5 Scholar Harlaxton, Lincolnshire
Ralph Cole Scott Son M 2 Harlaxton, Lincolnshire
Emma F Robinson servant F 24 Little Portson, Lincolnshire



No children born in NZ ?

Why arrival abt 1882?

NZ passenger lists are not easy to search. You almost have to know the port of arrival and the year.
 
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#10
NZ Historical Births Deaths & Marriages are searchable via this Gov't site
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/search/

No further children are registered in NZ for Andrew and Elizabeth Scott following their emigration here.

Their children:
George Andrew Scott, married Isabelle Collie
Robert Thomas Cleave Scott, unmarried
Louisa Elizabeth Scott, married William Goff Robertson
Gertrude Florence Scott, married James Torrance
Ralph Cole Scott, married Muriel Glendinning

I have Elizabeth Docton's parents as Richard Docton (b. 25 Mar 1734 at Little Petherick Parish, Cornwall), and Grace Lobb (b. c1749).

I have Richard Docton's parents as Richard Docton (b. 1698 ), and Joyce Harris (b.1702).
 
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DaveHam9

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#11
I checked the NZ site for births and possible early deaths to try and confirm the 1882 possible arrival.

I looked at the vessels arriving at Bluff and only a few have a partial list of passengers.

I have a few in my tree who arrived in Australia via NZ (with children born in NZ) and I can't find the births in NZ or the arrival in NZ or later in NSW/Vic.


The FamilySearch site used to have the Cornwall parish images to browse for free but they are no longer there.
 
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#12
Scott family still in England at 1881 Census, and Andrew appears in Electoral Roll for Invercargill, NZ in 1884. So emigration sometime between 1881 and 1884.
No certainty but the only Scott family I've found that fit are "Mr and Mrs Scott and family (5)" arrived in Dunedin, NZ, aboard the ship "Akaroa" from London on 7 May 1882. Passenger List published in the Otago Witness - see this link
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cg...882--10-OW-1----0akaroa+scott+london-ARTICLE-
 
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#14
Oh, and the other reason I believe the Scott family arrived in NZ about 1882, is because daughter Gertrude Florence Torrance's 1952 cemetery record states "Native of England; been in NZ for 70 years" - which equates to arriving about 1882.
 

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#15
From Otago Witness 1882
P15 Saturday 13th May 1882
Akaroa, barque, 1297 tons, T. Bowling, from London, (January 7th), Dalgety and Co. Agents.
Passengers:
Second Cabin

Adolphus Mrs
Broughton Miss
Brown Mr
Gain Mr
Meyer Mrs
Scott Mr
Scott Mrs
Scott family (5)

Vaughan Mrs
Vaughan Masters (3)
Vaughan Miss (2)
Walker Mr
Whitaker Mrs
Whitaker family (3)
Wilham Mr
Wreathall Messrs (2)
 
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#16
I got the Death Registration for the Thomas Cleave who died at Harlaxton on 25 October 1870 (of Bronchitis, Emphysema).
He was aged 73, and his occupation was "Gardener".
The Death Informant was Ann Jackson (who signed with a mark), present at his death, resident in Harlaxton. [Perhaps his nurse or a neighbour?]

So it contains nothing to absolutely connect him with our family, but his age and occupation of Gardener are certainly spot on.

Perhaps his burial record at St Marys & St Peters Churchyard, Harlaxton, or a newspaper death notice, mentions a family member.
 

DaveHam9

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#18
No sign so far of anything in a newspaper.

9 June 1870 at Padstow Henry Francis Cleave age 23 years.

20 Aug 1871 William Cleave age 63.

No luck with the Gale collection of newspapers held by British Library.

Searching "Births, Deaths, Marriages, Obituaries"

No luck searching the "News'" category.

Dave
 
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#20
FamilySearch has Ann Jackson, born c1824, at Harlaxton, in Census from 1841 through to 1901, as wife of William Jackson.
1861 Census - residence "Village", Ag Lab's Wife and School Mistress.
1871 Census - residence "Main Road", Ag Lab's Wife.
1891 Census - residence "Main St".

So nothing to indicate a connection to the Cleave or Scott families.

However the 1871 Census shows Andrew Scott and family as residing at the Gregory Arms (which was situated on Main Road, Harlaxton), Andrew being the Innkeeper (he held the Licence from 1868 to 1876) and Farmer of 66 acres. Perhaps William Jackson was Ag Lab for Andrew.
 
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