Thomas Eyre POWELL & Elizabeth Mitchell WARREN

[DaveHam9]

Thomas Eyre POWELL b. abt 1807 Co Limerick d. 1873 NSW reg# 2660 age 66 Pitt St Waterloo
- parents Eyre & Mary BARRETT

Index to Diocese of Killala and Achonry
Marriage Bonds Film 100868
Powell Eyre Mary Barrett 1801 p.120

married 28 Oct 1828 Castleconnell, Co Limerick

Elizabeth Mitchell WARREN b. abt 1812 d. ? NSW
- parents William & Elizabeth OR Joseph & Mary S

6007/1886 POWELL ELIZABETH M JOSEPH MARY S WATERLOO
2921/1883 POWELL ELIZABETH WILLIAM ELIZABETH PETERSHAM

I could take the Waterloo one because Thomas also died in Waterlo and because it has a middle initial of 'M" but several WorldConnect entries show her parents as William and Elizabeth, even those who show her death as being in 1886 !!

I can't afford to buy NSW certificates - eg:

Your order currently has 1 certificate(s) totalling $27.00
Item Number Certificate
Type Registration Number Name(s) Delete Item
1 death 6007/1886 ELIZABETH M POWELL

--------------
So, I guess we are looking for a William WARREN who married an Elizabeth or a Joseph WARREN who married a Mary. Somewhere Mitchell come into the frame.

Don't you love the Irish ones Dave?

 

[dickop]

Hello Dave,
Elizabeth Mitchell Warren died 1883 Petersham. William Warren from Silvermines.
Supposedly married 1828 at Castleconnell? No record at church yet records of kids baptism at the church. Extract of marriage states married 28 Oct 1828, Castleconnel yet priests name is wrong. Thomas Eyre Powell was known to indulge in the odd forgery.

Richard Powell

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Richard,

Thank you very much. I'm wondering if you can fill in a few more gaps in my POWELL tree.

How many children did Thomas & Elizabeth have? I have it as 12. I notice the early ones appear in the church register but the one I'm connected to - William Henry born about 1837 does not. Do you have a birth or baptism date for William? Do only baptism dates exist for those born before William?

I have lots of queries about Sydney born 7 Mar 1839 bv 'Susan' ? There is so much confusion about which of the two vessels named 'Susan' the family was actually on. From shipping reels it seems the family was not on the one that originated in Londonderry - unless it is a coincidence that there was the birth of a male named POWELL on the other vessel on 7 Mar 1839!

Vessel 'Susan' arrived 1 Feb 1839 from Londonderry no bv
Vessel 'Susan' arrived 10 Mar 1839 from Plymouth 1 'bv' Powell (male)

And then there is the question of the NSW BMD record - a baptism after arrival?

Reg# V1839105 23A POWELL Sydney

I hope you have some of the answers

Regards,

Dave

 

[dickop]

Hi Dave,

I make total 13 kids. Twins born 1845 list ob birth cert 5 m & 5 f living 1 m & 2 f died. TEP was a horrible drunk, sent out by the family from Castleconnell. Some interesting writing contained in the Secretary Generals correspondence attest to his intemperence, forgery and character. He was sent to debtors prison for his second offence. He wrote a letter to the Sydney Morning Herald thanking the ships captain etc when they docked in 1839. Sydney was born some days out from landing. Any confusion that exist for William Henry's birth could be because of his drinking habits. He used to go into drinking binges (4 days recorded). His wife was illiterate and so too were most of his children.
As far as my research goes, I am sure he went to university trained as a solicitor. Hence very good at forgery and legal implications when he was sober.
I have him graduating in 1828. William Henry, according to some members of the family, was not very well liked. Seemed to have followed in his fathers footsteps. His death certificate stated his father TEP was a Major in the Limerick Militia. According to my last relative who knew anything about the family, they came from Clonshavoy. That was not true, his famous and wealthy cousin (the MP) came from Clonshavoy. So porkies were abundant, and the only research I have is based on physical records.
There were two Susan's mentioned in the records, the one which TEP came out on sailed from Liverpool (from memory).
Hope this helps
Richard

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Richard,

Thank you very much. Some of that is very interesting and a bit curious.

Because of the confusion surrounding the two vessels I asked the archivist at State Records to help me.

The Colonial Secretary; NRS 1291, Reports of Vessels Arrived, 1839, Reel 1266 shows the following names of the masters: Susan arriving 1 February 1839 (from Londonderry) Master: Horlon? Payne Susan arriving 10 March 1939 (from Plymouth) Master: Neatley

The entitlement certificates for both voyages of the Susan (February and March 1839) are found in one alphabetical sequence on Reel 1307 [4/4849]. We use the lists shown in NRS 5313 and 5316 to locate the correct ship. As I have indicated above I did not locate a person with the surname Powell in either list. At the end of the entitlement certificates for the Susan (February and March 1839) on Reel 1307 there is a list of births on board, and there is a mention of a boy Powell being born.

Hence:

Vessel 'Susan' arrived 1 Feb 1839 from Londonderry no bv
Vessel 'Susan' arrived 10 Mar 1839 from Plymouth 1 'bv' Powell (male)

As you say, born a few days before arrival on the 7th.

I find it curious that William's spouse was illiterate. Certainly her mother Catharine may not have been so because she amassed a fortune. Catherine in her will gave Elizabeth 6x 20 Pound fully paid up shares in Industrial & Provident Society. Another daughter was given a the same. Catharine owned 4 properties, a bakery in Sussex St Sydney, a house in Trickett St Woollahra and two cottages in John St Woollahra.

I have the twins born 19 Oct 1848. I think I'm missing the 3rd born. I had but have since lost a connection to a POWELL researcher and there was some confusion about the first three children. One researcher had:

Eyre b. abt 1829
Robert Bevan b. abt 1831
James Eyre b. abt 1832

However some expressed doubt there was a James Eyre and an Eyre so I changed my tree by removing the 1832 one, hence 12 children.

Eyre c. 11 Oct 1829 Stradbally Church of Ireland parish registers

Death Reg# 283 Powell Eyre age 46 Sydney Infirmary
Age at death gives birth date of 1832 not 1829.

So which one married Jane and what happened to the other one?

Regards,

Dave

 

[dickop]

Hi Dave,

TEP's wife was illiterate, I don't know about William Henry's wife. Most of TEP's kids were illiterate according to signatures used when they registered births of their children. "X his mark" under signature indicates a lack of literacy?
Eyre Powell, died 1878 of typhoid, was my gg grandfather. He too was illiterate. I too have come across research of James Eyre Powell but have never seen anything to conform his existance (maybe he was the one who died?). Fred Scott, who I provided a fair bit of information to, lists James Eyre but doesn't list his source.
Eyre Powell was married to Jane Tipple Smith in 1856 by Banns. Jane Tipple Smiths father William, started the first iron smelter at (southern highlands of NSW, name escapes me now- near where Don Bradman came from?). BHP erected a plaque there to commemorate the occasion. Lynette Silver (there might be a de in there?) wrote a book about William Tipple Smith, who according to her evidence, was the first man to find gold in Australia. But a big yank took the glory!
On the 14 Mar 1842, TEP wrote to the Colonial Secretary mentioning he had 7 children. The Colonial Secretary was Mr Deas Thomson, son in law of ex Governor Sir Richard Burke. Richard Burke was known to the Powell family in Ireland (he lived quite close to Castleconnell - name escapes me but I have photos of the church- near Barringtons Bridge where Burton Eyre Powell {the rich MP relative} came from). Richard Burke supposedly provided references to TEP (mentioned in his application for a job to Deas Thomson). TEP was appointed as a third class writer/scribe to the Superintendents of Convicts (all this from memory and research done over 40 years). He was kicked out in 1842 and was declared insolvent-but missed out on going to prison. All this is confirmed through court documents and Colonial Secretarys correspondence.
TEP was gaoled in Dalinghurst for a subsequent insolvency in 1863. Court records kind of crumbly but managed to get copies.
I'll have to sort out my records to go any deeper but I have seen the reels for the shipping and realise there was confusion. The article in the SMH was the clincher for me - and I've got that somewhere too.
I would like to learn a lot more about your William Henry, wasn't he a saddler and harness maker? Although on his death cert it mentions he was a dealer, and underneath what looks like invalid pensioner?
That's all for now
Cheers
Richard

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Richard,

Thanks for more info on the family. I've tried to sort out the Eyre/James Eyre bit but have not been able to. Yes, I did see him in Fred's tree.

My connection is the SANDS family and I've only been working on my tree for 2 1/2 years. The few Wills, death certificates, etc... that I have collected so far are for that family. Sorry, I don't have William Henry's death certificate or anything yet that you would not already have.

Elizabeth Keltie SANDS was born 10 Apr 1938 Dumfermline, Fife

10/04/1838 SANDS ELIZABETH WILLIAM SANDS/CATHERINE SWAN FR4405 F Dunfermline /FIFE 424/ 0150 0185

Death Reg# 10314/1916 POWELL ELIZABETH K WILLIAM CATHERINE SYDNEY

The 'Celty' is an error. Her grandmother was Elisabeth KELTIE/KELTY.

Regards,

Dave

 

[dickop]

Hi Dave,
Thanks for info. I have dug out some past research re arrival.
From "the Australian" newspaper Index.

Powell Thomas Eyre Mr & Mrs
arrived from Plymouth Mar 10th per Susan.
Australian Mar 14th 1839 Page 3

Powell Thomas Eyre Mr & Mrs
sign letter to Capt Neaby of the Susan
Australian Mar 16th 1839 Page 3

From SMH Shipping Intelligence
"Also from Plymouth from whence she sailed, Dec 8th (1838) the ship
Susan Captain Neatby, with 298 emigrants Surgeon Superintendant
JE Pattison Esq"

microfilm reel AO 1307
Assisted (Bounty) Immigrants 1839
"Susan" was a passenger ship with most on board assited immigrants. Thomas Eyre Powell was not assited. A complete Susan passenger list is included at the end of the reel.

Powell Mr J (or T) E
Mrs
Ayre
Robt
Ellen (I think this is a nickname for Anna Catherine, just as Bessie was the name for Elizabeth Mitchell Warren)
Mary

Birth Powell Boy (Sydney)


On TEP's application for employment in 1839 he stated he had 6 children.
In 1842 dismissal from employment letters he states he had 7 children.

1. Eyre
2. Robert
3. Anna Catherine
4. Mary
5. William Henry
6. Sydney This amount checks out with correspondence from TEP in 1839
7. Burton This amount checks out with correspondence from TEP in 1842

Where does Stratford James fit in??

More Later

Cheers

Richard

William was born circa 1837-8

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Richard,

Thanks for all the extra info. I'm adding a new 1 TB hd and going from XP Corp to Windows 7 Ultimate 64-bit I hope over the next few days so I'll be off line for awhile.

Regards,

Dave