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Thomas HOLLANDS

DaveHam9

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#1
Hello,

name: Thos Hollands
event: Census
event date: 1841
gender: Male
age: 14
birthplace: Surrey
record type: Household
registration district: Godstone
sub-district: Godstone
civil parish: Woldingham
county: Surrey

name: Thos Hollands
event: Census
event date: 1841
gender: Male
age: 14
birthplace: Surrey
record type: Household
registration district: Godstone
sub-district: Godstone
civil parish: Crowhurst
county: Surrey

I'd like a look up the the household for those two please.

Not even sure if that's the same one twice with an error or if it's 2x Thomas.

Regards,

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#3
Thanks for looking, Peter.

I was hoping to find parents or siblings but no luck. This is 2nd time around trying to find the right Thomas Joshua in 1841 and 1851. He was in Australia by 1861.

Regards,

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#4
Hello,

Let's tackle this from a different angle working from this shipping record:

Index to Unassisted Inward Passenger Lists to Victoria 1852-1923
HOLLAND THOMAS 25 DEC 1852 'ORESTES' B 019 005
Departed Plymouth - Grocer

Assuming we are looking for a Thomas HOLLAND(S) born London/Middlesex/Surrey abt 1827 who is a grocer or similar trade/occupation in 1851 census, can one be found?

Regards,

Dave
 

horse

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#5
Hi Dave

This may be him...

LEBB
Name: Thomas Joshua Holland
Baptism Date: 15 Jun 1827
Father's Name: David Frederick Holland
Mother's name: Sarah Holland
Parish: Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers
Father Occ: Shipwright

Geoff
 

horse

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#6
Hi

There is a Thomas Holland in 1851 who fits the criteria, however, a FreeBMD marriage puts a spanner in the works and is also Holland not Hollands. I cannot find them after 1851, however.

1851 - HO107/1563/214/8
Reg dist: St George, Southwark
Sub: Kent Rd
ED: 8
Thomas Holland head, 24, b. Southwark, costermonger (greengrocer)
Jemima Holland wife, 22, b. Soutwark
Harriet dau, 1, b. Southwark

FreeBMD:
Q2 1848 Thomas Shinks or Spinks Holland & Jemima Privett, Newington, mar. (4, 402)

Geoff
 

DaveHam9

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#7
Hi Dave

This may be him...

LEBB
Name: Thomas Joshua Holland
Baptism Date: 15 Jun 1827
Father's Name: David Frederick Holland
Mother's name: Sarah Holland
Parish: Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Southwark
Register Type: Parish Registers
Father Occ: Shipwright

Geoff
Hello Geoff,

That is the one in my tree but may not be the one in the shipping record.

I was only looking for a Thomas who was single. On searching I find another arrived on the same vessel. I'd not worry about the 's' on the end. The name will appear in records either way.

HOLLAND JOHN 24 DEC 1852 ORESTES B 019 005

I can't find a baptism for that John that would make him a brother of the Thomas in my tree. I'd say the Thomas in the shipping record is not mine for several reasons.

Regards,

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#8
Hello Geoff,

Thanks for that 1851 census. Certainly interesting.

James Holland
England, Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage: 21 Aug 1826 Saint Leonards,​Shoreditch,​London,​England
spouse: Susannah Spinks


This is my Thomas:

St John's Glebe No 22
Thomas Joshua Hollands Bachelor London Accountant 32 - Liverpool St Liverpool St - David Frederick & Sarah Hollands mother's maiden name Lake - Shipwright
Eliza Annie Riley Widow 1 2 London - 33 - Glebe Road Glebe Road -Thomas & Elizabeth Acland mother's maiden name Stoddart - Gentleman
married in the Temporary Church of St John
31st May 1959 By me William Drake
Both signed
Witnesses: Thomas Harpha ?, Mary Beege ?

Regards,

Dave
 
Last edited:

horse

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#9
Hi Dave

I can see how the Spinks name came into the equation in the 1848 marriage, there are obviously transcription errors.

There is a small, unsourced tree on Anc. that has a Thomas Joshua Hollands married to an Eliza Annie Acland.

If you are still looking for siblings, I found these:

Name: William Simon Hollands
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 24 Feb 1815
Father's Name: David Frederick Hollands
Mother's name: Sarah Hollands
Parish: Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Southwark

Name: Sarah Ann Hollands
Record Type: Baptism
Baptism Date: 16 Jan 1824
Father's Name: David Frederick Hollands
Mother's name: Sarah Hollands
Parish: Bermondsey St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Southwark

Geoff
 

DaveHam9

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#10
Thanks Geoff.

I've checked for trees.

Looks as though my Thomas is another who can't be found in shipping records.

Annie's first marriage:

groom's name: Samuel Riley
groom's birth date:
groom's birthplace:
groom's age:
bride's name: Eliza Annie Acland
bride's birth date:
bride's birthplace:
bride's age:
marriage date: 21 Dec 1847
marriage place: Cathedral, Manchester, Lancashire, England
groom's father's name:
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: M09789-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 438208, 438209, 438210, 438211, 438212
reference number:

Regards,

Dave
 

juliejtp

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#11
Hi Dave,

Probate - Hollands David Frederick - Effects under £600

David Frederick Hollands late of 81 Grange Road and Bermondsey Wall county of Surrey - coal merchant widower died 9 Jan 1869 at Bishops Stortford county Hertfordshire - granted at principal registry to Frederick Thomas Hollands of 81 Grange Road - coal merchant and lighterman son and one of the next of kin
 

DaveHam9

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#13
Hello Julie,

Thank you very much.

That's curious. When I enter 1854 and 'Scotia' this is all I get from NSW State Records:

CORRAN Mary Anne 33 Scotia 1854 Sydney and/or Newcastle and sister Reel 2467, [4/4942]
CORRAN Sarah Jane 27 Scotia 1854 Sydney and/or Newcastle and sister Reel 2467, [4/4942]
ELLINGWORTH Mary Ann 23 Scotia 1854 Sydney and/or Newcastle Reel 2467, [4/4942]
HARVEY Agnes 17 Scotia 1854 Sydney and/or Newcastle Reel 2467, [4/4942]
MORGAN Elizabeth 17 Scotia 1854 Sydney and/or Newcastle Reel 2467, [4/4942]

Right one or not it still means there is another Thomas in England in 1851.


And:

Deaths Mar 1853
Hollands David Frederick Bermondsey 1d 88

Sarah is a widow in 1861. ???

Regards,

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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#14
SCOTIA
OF LONDON, STRICKLAND, MASTER, BURTHEN 778 TONS
FROM THE PORT OF LONDON TO SYDNEY, NEW SOUTH WALES, 4TH APRIL, 1854

Passengers include:

HOLLAND THOMAS - PASSENGER 2nd CLASS

CORRIN MARY ANN - PASSENGER STEERAGE
CORRIN SARAH JANE - PASSENGER STEERAGE
GILLINGWORTH MARY ANN - PASSENGER STEERAGE
HARVEY AGNES - PASSENGER STEERAGE
MORGAN ELIZA - PASSENGER STEERAGE

A different site with a different transcriber has the names slightly different.

It would seem that the five listed on the NSW State Records index were the only ones on board who were assisted, all the others being various types of unassisted passengers.
 
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DaveHam9

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#15
Deaths Mar 1869
Hollands David Frederick 55 B. Stortford 3a 173

The father of Thomas Joshua was born abt 1790.

So we have 3x David Frederick then.

Do we have 2x David F married to a Sarah and both coal merchants?

The marriage was 1812 so did David F and Sarah LAKE have a son born abt 1814 named David F. ?

name: David Frederick Hollands
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 20 Oct 1813
baptism/christening place: SAINT MARY MAGDALENE,BERMONDSEY,LONDON,ENGLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: David Frederick Hollands
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Sarah
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: P00158-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 0254552-0254560
reference number:
 
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DaveHam9

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#16
Marriages Mar 1839
CHANNIN George Bermondsey 4 8
DAY William Bermondsey 4 8
GROSSMITH Mary Bermondsey 4 8
HOLLANDS David Frederick Bermondsey 4 8 ** That's an '8' for sure.
SEYMOUR Jane Bermondsey 4 8
TAMBLINGSON William Andrew Bermondsey 4 8
WILLIAMS Mary Ann Bermondsey 4 8

:biggrin:

David Frederic Hollands
England, Marriages, 1538–1973
marriage: 09 Mar 1839 Saint James,​Bermondsey,​Surrey,​England
spouse: Sarah Elizth. Maunder


Marriages Mar 1839
BACON Elisa Bermondsey 4 6
BOWERMAN William James Bermondsey 4 6
BOWLES William Henry Bermondsey 4 6
BROWN Henry Bermondsey 4 6
EMPSON Thomas Bermondsey 4 6
MADDER Maria Louisa Bermondsey 4 6
MAUNDEE Sarah Elizabith Bermondsey 4 6 ** Hard to read but looks a '6' or an '8'
WHIFFEN Amelia Bermondsey 4 6
WILLIAMS Maria Bermondsey 4 6


Births Dec 1849
HOLLANDS David Bermondsey 4 5


Most likely:

Deaths Sep 1868
Hollands Sarah Elizabeth 52 Bermondsey 1d 80
 
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DaveHam9

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#17
So we are back to Thomas Joshua born 18 May 1827 Surrey

probably arrived in NSW 4 April 1854

married in NSW in 1859 - a bachelor and accountant aged 32
 

DaveHam9

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#19
Ok, that one ruled out by this.

1871
Event Place: St Mary Newington, Surrey
Enumeration District: 32
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Costermonger
Affiliate Image Identifier: GBC/1871/0620/0104
Household Role *** Age Birthplace
Thomas Holland Head Male 49 Borough, Surrey
Jemimah Holland Wife Female 40 Blackfriars, Surrey
Henry Holland Son Male 19 Borough, Surrey
Thomas Holland Son Male 15 Borough, Surrey
James Holland Son Male 13 Borough, Surrey
William Holland Son Male 11 Newington, Surrey
Hannah Holland Dau Female 8 Newington, Surrey
John Holland Son Male 5 Newington, Surrey
Richard Holland Son Male 3 Newington, Surrey
Charles Holland Son Male 1 Newington, Surrey


So no sign of Thomas Joshua Hollands born 1827 Southwark, Surrey in 1841 or 1851.

Dave
 

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