Thomas Shiel HAYNES

[MikeP]

Hello,

I'd like a look up please for Thomas Shiel HAYNES in 1840 and onwards.

Married Dorothy ?

Both born Lancashire

Emigrated to Auckland, New Zealand before 1864.

Thomas Shiel HAYNES d.1897 age 75yr NZ
Dorothy Haynes d.1925 age 100yr NZ (although family records her age as 103)



Thanks.

Regards,

Mike

 

[DaveHam9]

Hello Mike,

This feels like one of mine. :biggrin: Tough.

I've not found anything so far. No birth/baptism for Thomas or Dorothy, no marriage, no marriage for parents, ...

I'm now wondering how accurate the Lancashire bit is.

Also wondering if perhaps Dorothy is 2nd spouse.

Also tried HAINES.

Dave

 

[DaveHam9]

NZ births:

1864/21351 Haynes Richard Henry - Dorothy - Thomas Shiel
1865/28393 Haynes Mary Elizabeth - Dorothy - Thomas Shield

 

[gibbo]

Not sure if this will help or not

Papers Past
Evening Post
15 December 1925 Page 13

A Press Association message from Auckland reports the death of Sirs. Dorothy Haynes, at the age of &3. Mrs. Haynes came to Auckland from Staffordshire 64 years ago, and resided at Northcote for 45 years. She kept a hostelry there when the district was in its infancy.

 

[DaveHam9]

We need to know if they can be found in 1861 census.

Did they arrive married or did they marry in NZ?

 

[davelambert271]

K Norton is on the Staffs border with Warks and Worcs


Marriages Mar 1852

Haynes Thomas Kings Norton 6c 425
Leedham Dorothy Kings Norton 6c 425
Millington Hannah Kings Norton 6c 425
Millward Daniel K Norton 6c 425

 

[DaveHam9]

Beat me by 5 seconds.

 

[davelambert271]

found this 1861 census RG09- Piece 4438, Folio 172, Page 1 - Royal Navy at sea or at ports abroad

on board vessel Broadwater

Thomas Haynes 38 Builder, England
Dorothy Haynes 34 Lady, England

Census taken somewhere at sea (lat 49-14 long 6-8 ) between Gravesend, London and Auckland, New Zealand

dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Sailing Ship Arrivals in Auckland, New Zealand
In date order
29 July
1861
'Broadwater'
571 tons
Capt Stockman


HERE

The BROADWATER departed Gravesend on 3 April, 1861 and arrived in Auckland on 29 July, 1861, with Captain Stockman in command.

Transcribed from the Daily Southern Cross, 30 July 1861, Page 3


Messrs - Chadd, Pulham and wife, Fry, Haynes and wife, Gillies

 

[gibbo]

Good find with the census Dave.

Arrived in New zealand on the Broadwater

Papers Past
Daily Southern Cross
6 August 1861 Page 3

etc etc The ".Broadwater" brings the following passengers Revd. Mr. and Mrs. Thatcher, Mr. and Mrs. Lysaught, Mrs. Honiss and child, Messrs. Jackson, Bol» ton, Pemberton, Smith and son, Mr. and Mrs. Lawton, Messrs. Chadd, Pulham and wife, Fry, Haynes and -wife etc etc

 

[davelambert271]

Sailing Ship Arrivals in Auckland, New Zealand
In date order
29 July
1861
'Broadwater'
571 tons
Capt Stockman

that's the one, Why would 'Civvies' be on a Royal Navy vessel?

 

[DaveHam9]

That's the easy bit done. :biggrin:

Now for the marriage and baptism records.

Some of the 'upper class' did such as clergymen, govt officials, persons of status etc... not sure why others did in this case.

Will search some more.

Dorothy Haynes 34 Lady, England

Status there. I can't find ref to HMS Broadwater of around 1861.

Only H-81 is listed.

 

[davelambert271]

clutching at straws a bit, but this is the only one which come up for Dorothy


1841 England Census
about Dorathy Leedham

Registration District: Birmingham, Warwickshire
Sub-registration District: Lady Wood

Piece: 1140
Book: 2
Folio: 30
Page Number: 9

none born in county (Warwickkshire)
Stephen Leedham 39 Carpenter
Mary Leedham 35
John Leedham 15
Dorathy Leedham 14
Jeremiah Leedham 12
George Dechfield 30

 

[DaveHam9]

I'm not having much luck with the things I'm searching either. This does not indicate it's a Royal Navy vessel.

arrival: Broadwater
Origin: London
Destination: Hobart 1859 Jun 26
Date Item Details Source
background 10 passengers

571 tons - general cargo, mail parcels and brokers bags.

arrival: Broadwater
Origin: London
Destination: Hobart 1864 Aug 31
Date Item Details Source
background 12 passengers

ASSISTED IMMIGRANT SHIPS 1832 - 1889 to Tasmania - HERE

 

[davelambert271]

I don't know if its the same ship. There are two 1861 census returns for the Broadwater. The people listed on the same page as our Haynes, seem to be civilians. If you look at the previous image it is the heading sheet, then if you look at the previous to that there is a listing of the crew members. the first being a Commander rather than Captain, then another heading sheet

I wonder if the same census forms were use for the R. Navy and Commercial vessels


http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~shipstonz/PassLists/broadwater1861.html

dave

 

[DaveHam9]

Yes dave.

The lat and Long place it 4 days out of port just south of Isles of Scilly on census night.

There are sites that list all the names ever used for RN vessels and only one is listed with the name 'Broadwater' commissioned after 1900, which is curious. At 571 tons it is a small vessel which carries 10 or a dozen passengers as well as some general cargo.

 

[DaveHam9]

Only one I can find:

Name Stockman, Henry George
Date of Birth: 23 January 1876
Rank: Temporary Lieutenant
Date of enrolment: 22 March 1918



BROADWATER - 1859/1862
Master: Captain T. Stockman (1862)
Rigging: Ship; sheathed in yellow metal and partly in felt in 1858; fastened with copper belts
Tonnage: 571 tons
Construction: 1858 in Sunderland
Owners: J. Weller
Port of registry: London
Port of survey: Sunderland (1859); London (1862)
Voyage: sailed for New Zealand & China (1862)


Ads in the newspapers by the ship's agents advising of projected departure date. Commercial vessel with general cargo and a few passengers.

It is all rather curious. Lots of vessels would be at sea on census night but have only ref to RN vessels been found in census?

 

[MikeP]

Not sure if this will help or not

Papers Past
Evening Post
15 December 1925 Page 13

A Press Association message from Auckland reports the death of Sirs. Dorothy Haynes, at the age of &3. Mrs. Haynes came to Auckland from Staffordshire 64 years ago, and resided at Northcote for 45 years. She kept a hostelry there when the district was in its infancy.

That's the one
So if the newspaper is correct it's Staffordshire - not Lancashire!
All I knew about them was that they he was a very successful bootmaker and the Haynes Shoes (or similar) business existed in Northcote until 1945.
The hostelry is something new.
Thanks

 

[MikeP]

K Norton is on the Staffs border with Warks and Worcs


Marriages Mar 1852

Haynes Thomas Kings Norton 6c 425
Leedham Dorothy Kings Norton 6c 425
Millington Hannah Kings Norton 6c 425
Millward Daniel K Norton 6c 425

Looks a possibility. Just seems a bit surprising that their first child, Richard Henry Haynes, wasn't born until 1864 in NZ.

 

[DaveHam9]

Looks a possibility. Just seems a bit surprising that their first child, Richard Henry Haynes, wasn't born until 1864 in NZ.

Yes, one reason to doubt that's the right marriage. Not enough has fallen into place yet to be sure.

Mike, do you have anything that says Richard Henry was the eldest? Or just that his is the first reg found in the index? There is a family in my tree who arrived in NZ from England then moved to NSW and not all reg of children born in NZ are in the index.

Dave