Thomas Smith marriage Manchester

[katiemay]

I am so hoping that someone can help me with this mystery: I am researching a Winifred Bridget Smith, born in 1908, Manchester. Although it is fairly certain that she was born there to Thomas Smith and Margaret Jones (information from Winifred's marriage info - Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, 1930 and from immigration info, 1921), I can find NOTHING that actually proves her birthdate. This is not a particular concern to me because I do know her birthdate (from her grandson) but I can find no proof, either, of when or where Thomas and Margaret married, though they show up regularly on Census records with their growing family. They were Roman Catholic and of Irish descent. The 1911 Census indicated they had been married 25 years. Although it would be wonderful if someone could find this information for me, I would be just as pleased at some suggestions of where I might continue to look...or why I might not be able to locate the information.
Thanks.
Katie

 

[davelambert271]

Hi
I can't find a mge for Thomas to a Margaret Jones. 1911 says they married app 1886. Their 1st child indicates a mge just prior to 1887. 1901 census has a Mark Leonard 22 Brother in Law to Thomas..

there is a marriage in Manchester of Thomas Smith to Margaret Lowther in Sep qtr 1886 ref 8d 307

I can't find a Margaret Lowther in 1881, but there is a Margaret Leonard, but I can't find a Mark Leonard in 1881 either

dave

 

[katiemay]

Thank-you, Dave!
I did wonder about that Leonard connection...but discounted it...Now I will go back and take another look. I did find a Margaret Leonard, age 3, daughter of Michael and Catherine, on the 1871 Census for Manchester...and then, in 1881, she is shown at 13, with a younger brother, Mark, 3....
Curious...
Of course, it wouldn't be the first time there was a mix-up in names on various forms...
Again, thanks for your help. If you come across anything else, I would be very grateful!
Katie

 

[davelambert271]

MLFHS Catholic Register Index Search Results

Bap

SMITH
Winifred Bridget
1908
Page 427 at Manchester, St. Chad
------------------------------------
www.mlfhs.org.uk

Manchester, St. Chad, Cheetham
Bap Index 1847-1926

The registers of St. Chad have not yet been transcribed. Work on this commenced in the spring of 2010. What is offered here is copied from an early manuscript index to the baptism registers. Its accuracy cannot be guaranteed and some entries are illegible. It is, however, a useful index pending transcription of the registers. There are four additional sections in this register relating to baptisms at the Crumpsall Workhouse (1853-1867), Canal Street Workhouse (1857-1859), New Bridge Street Workhouse (1851-1885) and three baptisms described as "Military" (1860, 1861 and 1868 ).
The original registers are deposited at the Lancashire Record Office, Preston and copies on microfilm are available in Manchester Archives and Local Studies.

 

[davelambert271]

It was getting late last night, so I posted what I had found. I found Mark and Margaret this morning. It more or less indicates that her name was Leonard not Jones. You say she had Irish connections. Her mother was fron Dublin and her father Galloway. I wondered if Catherine had been married before Michael as he was quite a bit younger on the 1881 census, but there is not such a difference on 1871. I thought her 1st husband, if there was one, could have been Jones and Margaret was his child, taking Michaels name when Catherine married Michael. Just a thought.. how sure are you about the name Jones..

In a previous thread you asked about the occupation ''traveller in Fents'' (‘Fent’ is a local term which in years gone by meant a remnant of fabric measured and sold by weight). You will notice Catherine in 1871 and Michael in 1881 were Fustian cutters, Fustian is 'a fabric of stout twilled cotton or of cotton and low-quality wool, with a short nap or pile'.

 

[davelambert271]

possible marriage

Catherine Brangan
Michael Leonard

Jan-Feb-Mar 1865
Manchester Lancashire
8d 540

Looks as if you can forget my theory!!

dave

 

[katiemay]

WOW! Amazing!
Great to find out about the Catholic registers. I wondered if that might have something to do with why I couldn't locate the births of the Smith children.

When Winifred Bridget Smith married Peter Buckley in 1930, the registration indicated the "maiden name of mother" was Margaret Jones ( I have a copy of the registration and the writing is clear.).
Having said that, I can make no connection to Margaret to any Jones family. (Another ancestor on whom I've done research had three different maiden surnames listed on children's marriage registrations!...and I'm still not sure why...To my knowledge she only had one spouse and he was the father of all three children.)

I believe you're right about Margaret's parents being Catherine Brangan (possibly Branagan) and Michael Leonard.

You've been very helpful, Dave. Thank-you so much!
Katie

 

[davelambert271]

thought I'd have a look to see if I could trace Thomas (1855) before he got married
1881 - 3826-82-8
1871 - 4051-141-14
1861 - 4004-65-20

Some very interesting details. against this being him, he was born in Durham, lived in Newcastle for a while, but moved to Manchester before he was 10.

for it being him, he was a hawker, right age, his mother was called Bridget, and his father was a travelling draper. 1871 and 1881 they lived at the same address. James and Bridget were from Eire, giving the Irish connection

If this is the right Thomas, the owner of a Private tree on Ancestry has downloaded details re Bridget

dave

 

[katiemay]

This could be my Thomas; however, census info for '91, '01, and '11, all gave his birthplace as Manchester. There was a Thomas Smith (parents Patrick and Bridget) born in Manchester...who might fit, as well. I will keep looking and hopefully the registers for St. Chad's will be transcribed soon and provide more conclusive evidence!

thanks again, Dave!