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Thomas the 'Flubber'

DaveHam9

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#1
Hello,

1841
HO107 Piece 1278 Book 2 Folio 41 Page 42
Civil parish Kirk Heaton
RD Huddersfield
Sub RD Kirk Heaton
Hundreth Agbrigg (upper division)
Thomas Kilner age 20 occ Flubber? born in county
Ann Kilner age 20 born in county
George Kilner age 1 born in county
I'd like a trace through the census please for Thomas the 'Flubber' :D

Regards,

Dave
 

calliek

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#2
From the original Thomas B Kiner thread

1851

Civil parish

Thomas Kilner head age 34 occ wool carder born Dalton
Ann wife age 30 born Dalton
George son age 10 born Dalton
Fred Kilner son age 9 born Dalton
Charles Kilner son age 7 born Dalton
Emeline dau age 4 born Dalton
Agnes dau age 1 born Dalton

Class H0107
Piece 2294
Folio 604
Page 24

This looks like the family in 1841 when Thomas occ is Flubber? as there is Matty Kilner widow and family living in the same house but listed as a seperate household and the same for 1841.

1851.
 

DaveHam9

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#3
Possibly this one:

Thomas Henry c. 19 Jan 1817 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, England

Father: Thomas KILNER
Mother: Matty

Here is daughter Agnes in 1861 but I don't think her father is there. I don't know that he has died. If he has then I can't see a death reg that fits. Perhaps Thomas and spouse are not in Dalton but elsewhere in 1861.

name: Agnes Kilner
event: Census
event date: 1861
gender: Female
age: 11
relationship to head of household: Niece
birthplace: Dalton, West Yorkshire
record type: Household
registration district: Huddersfield
sub-district: 8 Kirkheaton
ecclesiastical parish:
civil parish: Dalton
county: Yorkshire (West Riding)

And this would be the daughter listed as Emeline:

name: Amelia Kilner
event: Census
event date: 1861
gender: Female
age: 14
relationship to head of household: Niece
birthplace: Dalton, Yorkshire
record type: Household
registration district: Huddersfield
sub-district: 8 Kirkheaton
ecclesiastical parish:
civil parish: Dalton
county: Yorkshire (West Riding)
 
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#4
Hi Dave

1861
Civil parish: Dalton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Huddersfield
Sub-registration district: Kirkheaton
Address: Lees Lodge, Dalton Mills, Dalton
KILNER, George F Head Unmarried M 41 1820 Slubber Dalton West Yorkshire
KILNER, Emma Sister Unmarried F 37 1824 Dressmaker Dalton West Yorkshire
KILNER, Agnes Niece F 11 1850 Scholar Dalton West Yorkshire


1861 census
Civil parish: Dalton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Huddersfield
Sub-registration district: Kirkheaton
Address: Dalton Mills, Dalton
BETTY, Joseph Head Married M 44 1817 Woollen Yarn Manufacturer Leeds Yorkshire
BETTY, Sarah Wife Married F 49 1812 Dalton Yorkshire
KILNER, Amelia Niece F 14 1847 Scholar Dalton Yorkshire

cheers
cp
 

DaveHam9

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#5
Hello cp,

Thank you very much.

I had assumed they were in the same household. My mistake in thinking Amelia in 1861 was Emeline. So I'm not sure where I am now. :D

Looks as though Agnes born Dalton in both 1851 and 1861 is ok. Perhaps Emeline died 1851-1861 but no sign of a death for one.

I'd better check there is only one Agnes born abt 1850. Yes:

Births Dec 1849
KILNER Agnes Huddersfield 22 360

name: Agnes Kilner
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 23 Dec 1849
baptism/christening place: Kirkheaton, York, England
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Thomas Henry Kilner
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Ann


name: Thomas Henry Kilner
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 19 Jan 1817
baptism/christening place: KIRKHEATON,YORK,ENGLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Thomas Kilner
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Matty
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C01272-2
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 990706
reference number:


Slubber Prepared cotton for spinning, removing the "slubs" or imperfections in the yarn.

Slubber Doffer Removed the empty bobbins from the loom spindles

Regards,

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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#6
Extracted baptism record
Thomas 1 Apr 1782 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire, England
Father: John KILNER
Mother not listed


groom's name: Thomas Kilner
groom's birth date: 1782
groom's birthplace:
groom's age: 20
bride's name: Matty Sheard
bride's birth date: 1782
bride's birthplace:
bride's age: 20
marriage date: 09 Nov 1802
marriage place: York, England
groom's father's name: John Kilner
groom's mother's name:
bride's father's name:
bride's mother's name:
groom's race:
groom's marital status:
groom's previous wife's name:
bride's race:
bride's marital status:
bride's previous husband's name:
indexing project (batch) number: I03811-2
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1469890
reference number: 1
 
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#7
Hi Dave

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Emileen Kilner
Birth Date: 11 Nov 1846
Parish: Kirkheaton, St John The Baptist
Baptism Date: 31 Aug 1848
Father's name: Thomas Kilner
Mother's name: Ann Kilner
Abode: Lees Dalton
Occ: Slubber

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Agnes Kilner
Birth Date: 27 Sep 1849
Parish: Kirkheaton, St John The Baptist
Baptism Date: 23 Dec 1849
Father's name: Thomas Henry Kilner
Mother's name: Ann Kilner
Abode: Lees ?old, Dalton
Occ: Slubber

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: George Kilner
Birth Date: abt 1840
Parish: Huddersfield, St Peter
Baptism Date: 12 Jul 1840
Father's name: Thomas Henry Kilner
Mother's name: Ann Kilner
Abode: Leeds road
Occ: Slubber

West Yorkshire, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
Name: Charles Edward Kilner
Birth Date: 22 Dec 1843
Parish: Kirkheaton, St John The Baptist
Baptism Date: 18 Feb 1844
Father's name: Thomas Kilner
Mother's name: Ann Kilner
Abode: Lees Dalton
Occ: Slubber

cheers
cp
 

DaveHam9

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#8
Hello cp,

Thank you very much.

I'm convinced the gap between Charles E and Willie can be explained.

1861
Class RG9 Piece 3268 Folio 80 Page 20
CP Huddersfield
Thomas Kilner head age 44 occ Woolen
Harriet wife age 27 *** 2nd spouse
George son age 20 occ carter
Fred son age 19 occ woolen spinner
Charles E son age 17 occ woolen

Willie son age 4
Henry son age 2
All born Huddersfield

Without checking the map I think that would be Leeds road. The A62. :D

Still not sure if Amelia is Emeline. Why not put both daughters after the remarriage with the same uncle rather than split them? There is no death 1851-1861 for anything like Emeline/Emileen/Emily... No birth for an Amelia 1845-1848 so it looks as though Emeline has become Amelia. Does not matter much. Was just making sure a particular Thomas in 1861 could be found in 1871. Same Thomas born 1817 as the one in the 1861 topic.

Regards,

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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#9
Marriages Sep 1851
BATTY Joseph Huddersfield 22 305
KILNER Sarah Huddersfield 22 305

This is Thomas & Martha not Thomas & Matty

name: George Frederic Kilner
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 28 Apr 1820
baptism/christening place: Parish of Kirk-heaton, York, England
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Tho'S Kilner
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Martha
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: I03317-9
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 990705
reference number: p 224 item 1789

I can't find a baptism for George F's sister Emma born abt 1824 to see if her mother is Martha or Matty.

Another Martha.

name: Sarah Kilner
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 09 Sep 1810
baptism/christening place: KIRKHEATON,YORK,ENGLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Thomas Kilner
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Martha
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: P01272-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 98535
reference number:
 
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DaveHam9

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#10
Hello cp,

Has to be the same family in #2 in 1851 (with grandmother Matty living there) and 1861. Ages fit for George, Fred and Charles.

Sarah (maried BATTY) and George F (both have mother Martha) should be siblings of Thomas Henry (mother Matty). ???

I can find no Thomas & Martha marriage that would fit. Only the 1802 marriage to Matty.

I'm not totally lost yet. :D

Regards,

Dave
 
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#11
Hi Dave

West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
Name: Sarah Kilner
Age: Full Age
Marriage or Bann Date: 1 Sep 1851
Parish: Kirkheaton
Father's name: Thos Kilner (Occ: Magistrates Clerk)
Spouse's Name: Joseph Battye
Spouse's Father's Name: Josh Battye


West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
Name: George Frederick Kilner
Birth Year: abt 1829
Age: 34
Marriage or Bann Date: 8 Aug 1863
Parish: Kirkburton, All Hallows
Father's name: Thomas Kilner (Occ: Bailiff)
Spouse's Name: Harriet Mitchell
Spouse's Father's Name: James Mitchell


West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
Name: Thomas Henry Kilner
Birth Year: abt 1817
Age: 23
Marriage or Bann Date: 19 Apr 1840
Parish: Huddersfield, St Peter, St Andrew, St Mark and St Peter
Father's name: Thomas Kilner (Occ: Slubber)
Spouse's Name: Ann Woodcock
Spouse's Father's Name: George Woodcock

cheers
cp
 

DaveHam9

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#12
Hello cp,

Thank you very much for the spanner. :2fun:

Ok. Where is my mistake?

Thomas Henry, a slubber b. 1817 son of Thomas a slubber and Matty SHEARD.

Anges is shown as a niece but it seems by mother's name and by father's occupation that George F is not a brother of Thomas Henry. The baptism record for Agnes shows her father as Thomas Henry.

groom's name: Thomas Kilner
groom's birth date: 1782
groom's birthplace:
groom's age: 20
bride's name: Matty Sheard
bride's birth date: 1782
bride's birthplace:
bride's age: 20
marriage date: 09 Nov 1802
marriage place: York, England
groom's father's name: John Kilner
West Yorkshire, England, Marriages and Banns, 1813-1921
Name: George Frederick Kilner
Birth Year: abt 1829
Age: 34
Marriage or Bann Date: 8 Aug 1863
Parish: Kirkburton, All Hallows
Father's name: Thomas Kilner (Occ: Bailiff)
Spouse's Name: Harriet Mitchell
Spouse's Father's Name: James Mitchell
I can see no Thomas born abt 1782 in 1861 census. Can you?

The age for George F is 9 years out. Age in marriage must be wrong. The 1861 census has him born 1820. I can only see one George F. Re the two 1861 census listings with the two nieces we can be sure that Sarah and George F are siblings.

The purpose was to rule out a Thomas for this death:

Deaths Jun 1863
Kilner Thomas Huddersfield 9a 222

Does that mean the Bailiff/Magistrates clerk is still alive in Aug 1863? Matty was a widow in 1851.


Regards,

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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#13
Hello cp,

I'm all 'flubbbergasted' :D

I'd like the 1841 and 1851 census listings please for the other household that includes Matty. See post #2 of this topic.

Can a Thomas, occupation Bailiff/Magistrates clerk, be found in any census?

Regards,

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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#15
Hello cp,

Thanks. That's one certificate I won't order then.

Cumberworth is in RD Huddersfield. However, I know of no KILNERS from Cumberworth that are part of the tree we are researching.

Huddersfield and Kirkheaton and Dalton and that's about it but not further away.

I think this one is of no interest to us.

name: Thomas Kilner
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 12 Nov 1786
baptism/christening place: Cumberworth, York, England
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: George Kilner
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Mary
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: C01871-5
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1542256
reference number: item 1

Regards,

Dave
 
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#16
Hi Dave

1841 census
Civil parish: Kirk Heaton
Hundred: Agbrigg (Upper Division)
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Huddersfield
Sub-registration district: Kirkburton
Address: Lee's Fold, Kirkheaton, Dalton (ref post 7 ?old = Fold)
KILNER, Matty F 55 1786 Yorkshire
KILNER, William M 35 1806 Yorkshire Bookkeepr
KILNER, George M 20 1821 Yorkshire Slubber
KILNER, Sarah F 30 1811 Yorkshire
KILNER, Emma F 15 1826 Yorkshire
(next door)
KILNER, Thomas M 20 1821 Yorkshire Slubber
KILNER, Ann F 20 1821 Yorkshire
KILNER, George M 1 1840 Yorkshire


1851 census
Civil parish: Dalton
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Huddersfield
Sub-registration district: Almondbury
Address: Lees
KILNER, Matty Head Widow F 68 1783 House Keeper Dalton Yorkshire
KILNER, Sarah Daughter Unmarried F 40 1811 Miliner & Dressmaker Dalton Yorkshire
KILNER, George Son Unmarried M 31 1820 Wool Carder Dalton Yorkshire
KILNER, Emma Daughter Unmarried F 29 1822 Miliner & Dressmaker Dalton Yorkshire

cheers
cp
 

DaveHam9

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#17
Hello cp,

Thank you very much.

:2fun: :2fun: :2fun: Have I got the right number?

One each for Sarah, George and Emma.

Now to explain what is going on. :rolleyes:

Thomas the spouse of Matty must of changed occupations. And since there is no sign of a Thomas to Martha marriage that fits, mother is listed as Martha instead of Matty for two of the children, Sarah and George. Son Thomas is married and living next door. Still can't find a baptism for Emma. And here is William:

name: William Kilner
gender: Male
baptism/christening date: 09 May 1805
baptism/christening place: KIRKHEATON,YORK,ENGLAND
birth date:
birthplace:
death date:
name note:
race:
father's name: Thomas Kilner
father's birthplace:
father's age:
mother's name: Matty
mother's birthplace:
mother's age:
indexing project (batch) number: P01272-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 98535
reference number:


Ok, this was the other death I wanted to check so could be spouse of Matty.

Deaths Mar 1849
Kilner Thomas Huddersfield 22 281

Regards,

Dave
 
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#18
Hi Dave

West Yorkshire, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985
Name: Thomas Kilner
Birth Year: abt 1773
Parish: Cumberworth, St Nicholas
Burial Date: 21 Jan 1849
Burial Age: 76
Abode: Denby Dale


West Yorkshire, England, Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1512-1812
Name: Thomas Kilner
Marriage Date: 14 Oct 1805
Parish: Silkstone
Spouse's Name: Martha Bedford

cheers
cp
 

DaveHam9

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#19
Hello cp,

Thanks.

The previous one abode Lower Cumberworth is too far away. I'm not sure about Denby Dale. I'll check. Pity it does not say Lees Fold. It is south of Lower Cumberworth, way too far away. Silkstone is even further away than Cumberworth. It is near Barnsley. There are plenty of KILNERS in the Cumberworth area but they seem not to migrate to Huddersfield or be connected with the family group we are after.

Matty's spouse could have died before 1837, as could one of the others we are chasing. It looks as though we have accounted for all the Thomas KILNER deaths Sep 1837 to 1870. We were looking for the death of a Thomas born 1775-1783. It now looks as though one of the two married Harriet HIRST in 1806 and the other died before Sep 1837 and we still have nothing to tell us if the father of the one who married Harriet is Thomas or George.

Regards,

Dave
 
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#20
Hi Dave

West Yorkshire, England, Deaths and Burials, 1813-1985
Name: Thomas Kilner
Birth Year: abt 1783
Parish: Kirkheaton, St John The Baptist
Burial Date: 9 Feb 1832
Burial Age: 49
Abode: Lee's Dalton

cheers
cp
 
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