Travellers

[romany rose]

JOHN STANLEY b 1843 Norwood ,died Croydon 1923 the son of Diverus Stanley and Naomi King
John married Louisa Ann?? born Croydon 1861,children of John and Louisa
1/John b Croydon 1869
2/Peter b Croydon 1870
3/Diverus born Croydon 1872
4/Naomi born Croydon 1875
5/Louisa born Croydon 1876
6/Mary born Croydon 1883
7/May born Croydon 1883
8/William born Croydon 1886
9/Henry born Croydon 1888,married 5/12/1910 @St Saviours church ,Croydon to Alice Gladwin born 1888 Croydon died 1948 Croydon(see next note)they had 4 children ,3 still living and also Thomas J Stanley born and died Croydon 1920
10/Abraham born Croydon 1892

 

[romany rose]

notes regarding Alice Gladwin
death reference 5g 58 O/N/D 1948 Croydon registered has Councy Alice aged 59 buried Queens Rd 11 8808 ,grave owned by Henry Stanley ,also buried with her is Edith Lilian Dossett buried May 1877 and a Mary Read buried January 1913
Romany Rose
****In god we must always trust and rely on to guide us ****

 

[romany rose]

for BARBARAJOH
Hello I had n`t forgotten you its just taken me a little longer to confirm the following
1851 census ,civil parish of Newcastleupon -tyne(all saints)
Edward Cromwell head of household aged 43
wife Jane aged 40
AND
Margaret Morton AGED 14
ALSO LOOKED AT MARRIAGES AND FOUND THE FOLLOWING
Edward Cromwell and Jane Dalgliesh A/M/J1843 at Newcastle
then looked into Jane and found that she was born Ireland,so she maybe returned back home to give birth to her children
has for your question about the Cromwell/Bowes link I havent found anything yet but am still looking
Would you like me to follow on with Jane??
take care
Romany Rose
***may the good Lord always be near ********

 

[romany rose]

Barbarajoh
well I have now been able to confirm that Edward Cromwell senior was NOT born in Newcastle but was born in Ireland in 1807,where he married Jane Dalgliesh born 1808 Ireland
they had the following children born Ireland
1/william born 1824,married Jane b 1827 they had 1 child William born 1850 in 1851 family were in Liverpool
and
2/Edward born Ireland 1827 died 10/6/1858,he was a registered optician ,married 1841 at New Monkland Lanarkshire to HELEN BOWES born 1824 she died 12/10/1858
children of above
1./ Edward born Glasgow 1844 died Kelso 1868 occupation tailors cutter/journeyman ,married Glasgow 1863 to Isabella Gaulton(do you want her tree?) she was born Dunbar 1839 died yetholm 1866
children of Edward and Isabella
1/Edward David born Glasgow 1864 died 1940 at Tradestown Glasgow occupation marine rivetter,married 1894 at Govan to Martha Hunter born 1870 Northern Ireland , not sure of death date but she died Australia her occupation was domestic servant
2/Robert born Hutchenstown 1866 died Yetholm 1866

 

[romany rose]

children of Edward and Martha
1/isabella born Glasgow 1895 died Katoomba Australia 1973 ,occupation water worker
2/Martha Sarah born Glasgow 1897 married Harry Dennis born Scotland 1897
3/ Edward David born 1891 Kinning Park Glasgow died 1907 Glasgow married Marion Ferguson born Glasgow 1905 died Glasgow 1997
4/James born Glasgow 1901 died Cathcart Glasgow 1954 a railway worker
5/Robert Frederick born and died Glasgow 1904
6/George Chalmers/Chambers(hard to read) born Glasgow 1906 died Scotland 1977,married Rebecca MacKay Ramsey Greenaway,occupation a nurse (do you want her tree?) born Glasgow 31 July 1908 died 19th May 1984 Glasgow,they married Blytheswood 1926,George`s occupation a railway signalman,they had 2 children 1 still alive and also Edward Robert born and died Glasgow 1930-1935
7/Elizabeth born 1908 died 1997
8/Marjorie born Glasgow 1911 died Glasgow 1937,occupation an hotel waitress
9/Frederick Robert born Glasgow 1914 died Henderson Street ,Glasgow 1915
*******thats all for now will wait to hear from you to confirm if you need me to go any further and in what direction**
take care
Romany Rose x
*********may the good Lord watch over us while we sleep***

 

[barbarajoh]

Thanks for all that Romany, lots of info there. I hadnt' thought you had forgotten just that you couldn't find anything - lol!

Is it okay to ask from what source that all came from? Is it from Traveller trees?

This family are really confusing as Edward the Hatter is living with Jane Dalgleish in the 41 and 51 (didn't know her last name so thanks for that and would like anything you have on her) and you have him marrying in 1843 but I have a marriage certificate which I can send you if you like where Edward the hatter is marrying Margret McDermott at Newcastle in June 1843. Father David Cromwell an agent. Edward was of full age and Mgt a minor. I found a death for Edward in Glasgow but as a pauper and labourer with no wives mentioned. And he is still with Jane after his marriage so what is that all about and can there be two Edward Cromwell, hatters in Newcastle. Doubt it.

Can you see why I am tearing my hair out? And Edward jnr can't have married Helen Bowes in 41 as he would only be 14.

My interest is Helen Bowes son who was Edward David Bowes Cromwell on his death certificate and married Isabella Gaulton. Her family wouldn't have Romany connections? When Helen died she was Helen Cowes and her death cert says her father was Edward Cromwell, hatter. But the informant was someone who wouldn't know her probably.

I am toying with the idea that it is Edward Cromwell the Hatter who is fathering the children.

But anything further you can help with would be magical!

Barbara

 

[romany rose]

Hi Barbara
Well glad that I could finally help you/although I can understand why you where pulling your hair out!
ok
the Edward marrying Jane is the right one(after doing an initial quick search for you when you first posted I too came across the Edward marrying Margaret McDermott in 1843 but could quickly see that that was the wrong one to follow
so I have a number of friends -from the good old days -doing Irish research it was them that forwarded all the info to me regarding the Irish side and I took up the Scottish research (been doing this for over 30 years)
anyway to cut a long story short we were able to establish that the Edward and Jane is indeed yours
I have just been sent some more info on the family and I am hoping to post today once I have checked the info out
Romany Rosex

 

[romany rose]

Parents of Isabella GAUTON
Robert Gauton born Dunbar 1810 died Dunbar 1857 ,occupation grocer/baker/fish merchant married 1831 Dunbar to Hannah Small born Ireland 1812 died Hutchenstown 1866
children of above
1/John born Dunbar 1833,occupation-merchant navy,married Gorbals 1857 to Barbara Hutchinson born 1836-in 1851 census @ Aberdeen St Clements ,Aberdeenshire-1871 census Vessels,Angus
2/Elizabeth born Dunbar 1835,occupation servant
3/Mary born Dunbar 1837 died Yetholm,occupation flower seller ,married 1864 @Glasgow to James Brockie born 1838 ,occupation Hawker
4/ISABELLA m Edward Cromwell
5/Hannah born Dunbar 1841 died 1920 @ Loch Gilphead Argyll
6/Margaret born Dunbar 1844 died Canongate Edinburgh 1890 married 1870 at St Andrews Fife to James Stewart born 1840
7/Euphemia born Dunbar 1848

******all the above information has been copied from Scotlands People website****
Romany Rose x

 

[romany rose]

updates
for

Martha Sarah Cromwell born 5th December 1896 Glasgow died September 1966 at Kitchener,Ontario Canada
she arrived in Quebec 1922
she married York ,ontario 1928 to Jack Davis Dennis (known has Harry),witness at wedding were Percy R Stewart and Jessie McPhearson
both Martha and Jack gave the same address at the time of their wedding
2007A ?? Dunes??(hard to read) Street West Toronto Canada
Jack was born England 1900 he died 1984 at Kitchener Ontario Canada
his parents were Thomas Dennis and Lucy Davis
All the above checked through Scotlands People website and Canadian details found through Ancestry

Romany Rose x
p.s still looking at Helen although I have a little info she is proving a lot harder to verify
Romany Rose x

 

[barbarajoh]

Thanks again. I can't find another marriage in Newcastle in 1843, can you send me the reference so I can get it. I also find it hard to believe there were two hatters in Newcastle named Edward Cromwell. I can only find one in the census and Cromwell is not very common in the North.
Also do you have details of the marriage between Helen Bowes and Edward Cromwell as although I use SP a lot I am not finding it. Do you have Helen dying in Eyemouth?

I do appreciate all this but hope you are not spending your own money on ScotlandsP as it can soon mount up.

I have found Helen in the census and believe her to be Ellen Cromwell in Dumfries in 1851. Living with her is a David Bowes of the right age to be her son Edward Cromwell.

Barbara

 

[romany rose]

Barbara
Thankyou for your thanks(if that makes sense)
No -I am not using any credits for Scotland s People has I said I have a few connections :biggrin:
I have been researching family history for over 30 years and I have been known to pay for the odd look up for someone through using my credits on other research sites but having done a similar kind of work before I retired it has placed me in a crafty position has to sometimes knowing where to look (not in the obvious places)
my father in law was the last rag and bone man in Glasgow -having come from a family of gypsy/fair peple, and my mother came from a long line of Irish Romanies
I have collected over the years a lot of local history and family history`s of Glaswegians and also a lot of family history`s on fair folk and also a lot of Romany Family history`s both English and Irish
Romany Rose x

 

[barbarajoh]

Well don't mind tapping in to your knowledge, Romany and if you can find any more on Jane Dalgleish I would be very grateful. The Edward marrying Margaret in 1843 is a mystery as there are no couples with those names in the census in 51. I am also toying with the idea that Ellen was Cromwell to start with, perhaps a daughter of Edward the hatter and had a child with a Bowes. This would make sense of her death record where she says her father was Edward Cromwell, hatter.

Any opinion?

Barbara

 

[reds]

Hi Guys, Hope you dont mind me coming into the thread, but was wondering if you be able to help me with my Traveller Roots?

I have been trying to find my 3x Gt Grandfather, I have quite a bit of info on him, but cannot find a birth/bap record on him nor a marriage! his name is HENRY DELL, he was born c1795 according to his death cert he was 84y, he died of old age, still living in his Caravan at Heath Street Dartford Kent a Basket Maker. His Son Elias was informant.

His wife is called MARY ANN, I have no info on her at all!

I have no idea how many children they had?,
but i do have info on 3 of them, Son, Elias Dell 1836, Bexley Kent my 2x Gt Grandfather
Daughter Margaret Eleanor Dell 1838 Stone & Emily Aubrey Dell 1840 Stone.

I Have recently found that they also had a Son called William Dell, Born c1826 place unknown but have found he died 5 Nov 1910 in Maidstone but is buried in Dartford he to was 84y & am waiting for the death cert to come!

I also have found that Henry, William & Elias was in prison for 3 years for Horse Stealing in 1864, i aslo have got the newspaper reports, & also of the Three of them stealing Hay in 1859! naughty boys!!

In these Newspaper reports it discribes there Caravan of yellow colour & the Cart tilted & of green colour which both had "Dell, Bushey Hertfordshire" inscribed on them! I am unable to find anymore info on Dell's of Bushey Hertfordshire and wondered if you guys are able to help me with HENRY, MARYANN & WILLIAM DELL?

Thankyou in advance & for your time!

 

[romany rose]

Hello Reds
a warm welcome to the site welcome
I have found a little information for you and am just cross referencing it before I post on here.
I just hope that there will be some leads for you has you already seem to have found a lot out (but sometimes looking for Romany Gypsy info can be very daunting)
So stick with us
take care
Romany Rose x

***may the good Lord guide us through this sometimes complicated life ****

 

[romany rose]

Reds
Just a thought you might like to take a look at the following
***************
Bexley Times ----google it
*********************************
Belvedere Cob====google it ( weighs 2 tons and was erected to honour the Gypsys of Kent
************************************
also
type into search bar
London Borough of Bexley /archives department that has records of Romany`s b/m/d/ for the Bexley Heath area
*******************************************
Gordon Boswell Romany Museum( I have visited my good friend Gordon on several occasions ,his Romany Museum is definately one to see but it is now closed for the winter -however he will help if he can although he does not do family research,he does have info on various gypsy families ,his museum e-mail is AT`boswell_romany_museum.com
****************************
Romany Rosex

 

[romany rose]

Reds

England and Wales Free BMD/Death index volume 2A Page 202
HENRY DELL ,estimated birth year 1795,date of registration J/A/S/ 1879 aged 84 years in the registration district of Kent
*************
marriage of Elias to Caroline Eastwood O/N/D/1866 registration district of Maidstone Kent,volume 2A pg number 1029
*************************
1881 census
1 caravan,Dartford Heath Lane ,Bexley Heath.Kent-piece 866 folio 7 page 8
Elias D(u) ell aged 40 head of house bc 1841...licensed hawker of brooms
Caroline aged 35 wife bc 1846
Elias son aged 11 bc 1870
Ellen daughter aged 10 bc 1871
James son aged 8 bc1873
Annie daughter aged 6 bc 1875
Britannia daughter aged 4 bc 1877
Mark son aged 1 bc 1880

 

[romany rose]

Reds
With regards to
Margaret Elaenor Dell born 1838 @ Stone ,Kent she died @ Dyson`s Rd Edmonton,Middlesex 13/1/1924=she married George Eastwood born 1837 he died 26/5/1909 they married 17/12/1860 @Walthamstow Essex
George was born Greenhithe,Kent and died Middlesex,in the 1851 census he is @Deptford St Paul and in 1891 both are @Edmonton
children of above (have found families of children let me know if you want them)
1/Margaret Elleanor Eastwood born January 1863 @Berkhamstead
2/George Eastwood born 1867 @Elton,Kent
3/Mark Eastwood born 1869 @Shickwell Row Essex
4/Caroline Eastwood born 1871 @Shickwell Row Essex
5/Rosina Eastwood born 1873 @Wanstead died 1966 Edmonton married William Youell
6/Mary A Eastwood born 1876 @ Shadwell Heath Essex
7/John Eastwood born 1877 @ Warrtenberry,Kent.married Rose Adeline Broderick
8/Thomas Eastwood born Middlesex 1833 died 9/6/1887
take care
Romany Rose x:biggrin:

 

[reds]

Reds

England and Wales Free BMD/Death index volume 2A Page 202
HENRY DELL ,estimated birth year 1795,date of registration J/A/S/ 1879 aged 84 years in the registration district of Kent
*************
marriage of Elias to Caroline Eastwood O/N/D/1866 registration district of Maidstone Kent,volume 2A pg number 1029
*************************
1881 census
1 caravan,Dartford Heath Lane ,Bexley Heath.Kent-piece 866 folio 7 page 8
Elias D(u) ell aged 40 head of house bc 1841...licensed hawker of brooms
Caroline aged 35 wife bc 1846
Elias son aged 11 bc 1870
Ellen daughter aged 10 bc 1871
James son aged 8 bc1873
Annie daughter aged 6 bc 1875
Britannia daughter aged 4 bc 1877
Mark son aged 1 bc 1880

Thankyou Romany Rose, I have this information, Caroline & Elias are my Gt Gt Grandparents, much appreciated! I will have a look at the sites you have sugguested hopefully might find something to help me find HENRY, MARYANN DELL

 

[reds]

Reds
With regards to
Margaret Elaenor Dell born 1838 @ Stone ,Kent she died @ Dyson`s Rd Edmonton,Middlesex 13/1/1924=she married George Eastwood born 1837 he died 26/5/1909 they married 17/12/1860 @Walthamstow Essex
George was born Greenhithe,Kent and died Middlesex,in the 1851 census he is @Deptford St Paul and in 1891 both are @Edmonton
children of above (have found families of children let me know if you want them)
1/Margaret Elleanor Eastwood born January 1863 @Berkhamstead
2/George Eastwood born 1867 @Elton,Kent
3/Mark Eastwood born 1869 @Shickwell Row Essex
4/Caroline Eastwood born 1871 @Shickwell Row Essex
5/Rosina Eastwood born 1873 @Wanstead died 1966 Edmonton married William Youell
6/Mary A Eastwood born 1876 @ Shadwell Heath Essex
7/John Eastwood born 1877 @ Warrtenberry,Kent.married Rose Adeline Broderick
8/Thomas Eastwood born Middlesex 1833 died 9/6/1887
take care
Romany Rose x:biggrin:

Thankyou RomanyRose, I also have this info as well as other Daughter Emily, Emily also married a Dell, William.

 

[hlouisew]

I just wanted to add, I'm so glad I started this thread. Romany Rose you have been an Angel with the time you've taken to answer everyone individually. Also the information I've found out has really driven me to research The Stanley's and opened up such a wealth of information!