Unsure what surname should be - listed as Nciliwie

[Terrie]

I know many times names were spelled as they were pronounced when recording christenings.
I am trying to figure out what name this could have been, it is listed as Jannet Nciliwie as the mother of Donald McNaughtan. She was most likely born between 1665 and 1675 in the Perth area.

Thanks for your help (as usual)!

Terrie

 

[emeltee]

As she is from Scotland I'd be inclined to change the letter N at the beginning for a letter M.

Emeltee

 

[Ellie7]

John Mcnaughton
Spouse's Name Janet Ncphael
Event Date 07 Jun 1698
Event Place Kenmore,Perth,Scotland

none found on FMP
only one found on FS.

Ellie

 

[Ellie7]

FMP

Janet
Last nameMcPhellan
GenderFemale
Birth year1678
Birth place
Baptism year1678
Baptism date12 May 1678
Baptism placeLOGIERAIT,PERTH,SCOTLAND
Father's first name(s)Duncan
Father's last nameMcPhellan
Mother's first name(s)Elspit
Mother's last nameStewart
PlaceLogierait
CountyPerthshire

Edit -FMP not coming up with a marriage for Janet McPhellan

Ellie

 

[DaveHam9]

I'm wondering about McPhilimy/McPhilimie

Dave

 

[Ellie7]

7.6 miles between Kenmore and Logierait.

Ellie

 

[Ellie7]

Malcom
Last name----McNaughton
GenderMale
Birth year----1691
Birth place
Baptism year----1691
Baptism date----15 Dec 1691
Baptism place----KENMORE,PERTH,SCOTLAND
Father's first name(s)----John
Father's last name---McNaughton
Mother's first name(s)---Joannet
Mother's last name---Nciliwie
Place----Kenmore


Ellie

 

[Ellie7]

http://surnames.behindthename.com/names/usage/scottish


Ellie

 

[Terrie]

Thank you for all the info you gave.

This Jannet was married to John McNaughten, they had at least two sons - Malcolm born in 1691 and Donald (my line) born in 1694. Tracking back through Donald is how I found the surname Nciliwie. Because of these events I don't think the Janet Ncphael that married another John McNaughton in 1698 can be correct.

I will try a few of the other surname suggestions and see if I can track back Janet McPhilimy/McPhilimie.

Any other suggestions appreciated!

Terrie

 

[Elwyn]

I know many times names were spelled as they were pronounced when recording christenings.
I am trying to figure out what name this could have been, it is listed as Jannet Nciliwie as the mother of Donald McNaughtan. She was most likely born between 1665 and 1675 in the Perth area.

Thanks for your help (as usual)!

Terrie

I am not an expert on Scottish Gaelic but what I think you have come across is the woman’s name in Gaelic, within the patronymic naming system (which preceded conventional surnames in Scotland). East Europeans and Nordic countries still use that system to varying degrees. The patronymic system names the man or woman after their father but the “surname” changes with each generation. So Donald son of Neil is Donald McNeil, but his son James is James McDonald or Donaldson, and so on. Janet daughter of Neil is Janet Ni Neil or NicNeil. And so on.

So whilst the males have surnames beginning Mc/Mac etc, the females have Ni or Nic (Mhic if they are married). So, in this case, she was Janet NicIlwie. Had she been male it would have been McIlwie.

Google Scottish patronymic naming for further information.

Incidentally, if you can get your head around it, it also means that when people with say, the surname MacDonald, all believe they are members of the clan MacDonald, they are generally mistaken. All it means is they had an ancestor named Donald. They could be from any clan at all, or none. Sorry if that shatters anyone’s sense of kinship with a particular clan.

 

[Terrie]

Thank you for that information Elwyn, it is helpful and frustrating at the same time. I am glad the information I have through 1670 is solid, it is going to be more difficult from this point on.
I have been using a combination of records with christening records proving most helpful. I've also used what I can find of where the families lived then moved after marriage. Any suggestions on what else I should use is appreciated!

 

[Isobel315]

Could the surname be McIllwee or some similar spelling to that. McIllwee is still a Scottish surname.
I can see the birth for Donald McNaughton in Perthshire in 1694 on Family Search and they spell it NcIliwie. This will be a transcript from the Old Parish Register which is of course a hand written document from 1694. The OPR's are often very difficult to read for many reasons. These were originally records written down by a minister or teacher in a local area from verbal information given by someone who in most cases couldn't read or spell their name so the chance of accuracy is fairly small. Add to that the errors brought in during the transcription process and you can end up with an index entry that is a long way from the correct name. Mc or Mac being indexed under Nc or Nic comes in quite a few times so I would suggest it should be Mc.
Hope this helps,
Isobel