Where are these Jacques of London, Nottingham or Yorkshire??

[bronhill]

Hi,

I am looking for info on the Jacques family- William, Thomas, Robert, Sarah and Charlotte who emigrated to Australia in 1830s. It is thought they were residing in London prior to emigrating however may have originated in the Sheffield area.


regards

Bronhill

 

[duckweed]

Have you seen this website as they give different dates of arrival etc though obviously same names under Australian Pioneer Families?
http://www.geocities.com/mepnab/ij/j1.html?200926#jacques
Can you give approximate birthdates of anyone born in England but moved to Australia?

 

[bronhill]

Yes- I have a copy of these details but what I am still hunting is Robert and Sarah's father and if Thomas who came with Sarah and Ann, Robert's wife is a brother ( am assuming he is as he witnessed the marriage- but also if William who arrived is a sibling or a cousin- and who their parents are, and so track them back.

I have also seen several trees of the Scottish Jacques- and some in Cumberland, and have mapped those. I think this lot probably spin off from them but between the late 1600's and Robert supposedly the father b 1783 and who married 1808, there is a void. I figure there must be some Jacques in England who are connected even of through Robert's ( senior b 1783) the father.
I had a response from a Whittaker in Conisbrough which is near Sheffield re Sarah- who we think is Robert's wife that he married in London. but he didn't know any more whether this was the right Sarah s he didn;t know anything about the Sarah on his tree ( and there were probably plenty with that name).
I might have to order the marriage certificate but am not sure if it will have the parents listed on it.

 

[duckweed]

Why I am asking is if Robert and Ann came after 1841 then they are on the census. Or these other people may have mixed 2 Jacques together which may be confusing people . The Robert and Ann Jaques with daughter Mary Ann is in fact in Wakefield in 1841. There is a Robert and Sarah Jacques about the right age to be Sarahs (your Sarah) parents born in Essex and living in Yorkshire as Gamekeeper and wife. There is another who is a Mariner. Any more names with approx birthdates might help me pin them down in Parish records.

 

[bronhill]

Hi Duckweed,

Sorry if I misread your info- must be this head cold or else perhaps piglet flu!!

The Jacques children- like William would not appear on an 1841 British census as they came to Australia in 1830s. The parents Robert and Sarah ( if that is correct ) who were born c 1783 and married in 1808 would probably be on a census but I haven't been able to find them as yet as it kept drawing a blank on ancestry.com.

From the Sth Aust records I have almost all of the Jacques listed were connected. There may have been Jacques who came to NSW and Vic or Tasmania much earlier than the 1830's I think but SA was a fairly closed community- and somewhat geographically isolated- still is to some extent- with a ling way to the East Sydney and a long way to the west Perth and a long way to the north Darwin. From the lists I was able to place virtually all of them on my mud map as sons or daughters of Robert and Ann.

Charlotte remains a mystery. It is thought she was another sister of Sarah. She was in Australia in 1839 when the marriage occurred of Sarah and William Teasdale, but cannot find her listed non any ship as an immigrant.
She was recorded as Charlotte Jacques on the marriage certificate.... but could be her married name and she was Charlotte somebody prior to marrying a Jacques. Another is that perhaps she came out just for the wedding and for a visit but didn't live here. There is no apparent record of a marriage of a Charlotte Jacques here in Australia. Couldn't find a Charlotte X on the ships list either that would be likely to match and we didn't have a death either.

I have a lot of Birth death and marriage records for the Jacques in SA and have mapped most as with the marriages it gives the father's name. The only other Jacques with birth date early 1800s I couldn't place on the tree was a Joseph Jacques husband of an Ann ? b 1833 and a Joseph Jacques b 1826 died 1892 aged 66 who I think is one and the same. Could have been a son of Ann Newman perhaps and one of the boys who came on the ship. Perhaps she had been married before she married Robert whom she married in 1829 so the records at London UK seem to show.
Gosh Duckweed I hope this all makes some sense to you as my head feels like a bag of sawdust at present!!!

 

[duckweed]

I've found a Charlotte Jacques who married a John Black and died in 1902 in Port Lincoln SA but if that can't be her as her first child is put as William Black in 1834. However the records are not too clear. There is no marriage date and several children have the same birth year. Even John Black's birthdate is unsure as put as probably 1796 Ireland. He died 7.9.1864 in Port Lincoln SA. It suggests Charlotte was born in 1802 but as her last child is in 1854 I think this is unlikely. The Jacques records are really muddled aren't they? Some people have been leaping to all kinds of strange conclusions. I've seen this kind of spurious research in my own family of Prescotts. People have been connecting several totally unrelated families in the bid to prove they are related to someone famous with that name. I think this is what has been happening here except in this case the Jacques are most likely related but in a more complex way. I saw in one family tree that they have got William Teasdale born in Marylebone.

 

[bronhill]

Hi Duckweed,

I have had a couple of responses re links to Charlotte Jacques who apparently married John Black from Ireland and moved to SA. They had 10 children who came to SA and lived at Port Lincoln. However I think while the Charlotte Jacques who appears may be this one.
It is thought Charlotte and William were cousins- which may mean William, Robert, Sarah and Thomas were siblings and children on Robert and Sarah of London There was also a Charles Jacques in SA in mid 1800s that I couldn't place who m arried a jane evans in 1849 so he would have been born c 1824.

I found a Charlotte b Kent in 1808 which is a bit of a tight time frame unless conceived out of wedlock. This Charlotte married a John Mullet ( have found the record) and had Sarah Ann b 1830 and Frances b 1833 so married him abt 1829/30. These girls married in South Australia both to me surnamed Cornish. So unless she remarried to John Black there are three Charlottes with name Jacques- either as a maiden name and born a Jacques or marrying a Jacques.
Gets confusing. Hope someone can shed some light on them.

Maybe William and Charlotte Jacques were brother and sister -and while he married a Charlotte Black, his sister Charlotte married John Black- so that brother and sister married brother and sister. That has been known to happen.

Am still trawling records to see what I can find. Is interesting that we have one lot from London and the other lot from Port Stewart in Ireland- all appearing in South Australia so must be some link.

Will keep looking, but the BDMs don;t show much prior to 1837. Haven't found them on a census of they lived in Port Stewart Ireland prior to 1858.

Apparently Charlotte Jacques and John Black had:
1.William c 1835
2 Henry c 1836
3, James 1838
4. jaques 1839
5 frederick 1843
6 George b 1844
7 Thomas b 1846
8. samuel b 1849
9.Charlotte E b 1851
10 Joseph b 1854

Apparently a Maria Jacques- daughter of William married James Black son of John and Charlotte ( nee Jacques) 16/1/ 1881 She was 40 ( born abt 1841) and he 42 b abt 1839. Question remains- were these two second cousins which married?
What is even more interesting is James Black marries Julia Cavanagh 19/4/1885 four years later as the father of both of these James is listed as John Black. Perhaps his first wife died- child birth or something?
I must have another look at the Jacques from Sheffield and see if there is some link.

Talk to you soon

Bronnie

 

[duckweed]

I know this may be at a tangent. I remember a Who Do You think You Are programme following Graham Norton an Irish presenter/comedian who it turned out had roots in the Sheffield/Rotherham area. His Ancestors had been sent by the local landowner to work on his land in Ireland. That was in the 1700s I think but researching my family I have found members of my family sent over because of their specialist skills, stone mason, landscape gardener etc.. There are a number of Jacques who went over to Ireland for a short stay as far as I can see, not to permanently settle. Though probably there are other Jacques who went there to work in the linen trade. Might be worth looking at Jacques in Ireland too though being Ireland that is easier said than done as so many records were lost.

 

[bronhill]

Hi Duckweed... I agree... people moved about to take up work where there was a skill shortage.

I am thinking perhaps that this Charlotte nee Jacques who married nJohn Black may well have been a cousin to Sarah and Thomas. Not sure where William fits in... but that he married a Charlotte Black... i.e. a Charlotte Jacques married a Black and a John Black married a Jacques. Is possible. That would mean that the signatory on the marriage certificate was not Sarah's sister but sister -in-law- wife of William if he is the other brother. i.e. Robert, William, Charlotte and Thomas. If Sarah Jacques was the only girl in the family of boys- Charlotte may have been the only one to fit the role of matron of honour.

There is definitely a Charlotte Jacques married to a John Black.She died at Prt Lincoln 18/5/1902 aged 95 ( good innings) as I found the record for the Pt Lincoln cemetery. Did not find a Charlotte Jacques however in any of the data bases that being as the wife of William also no record of William either- so he might have moved to Victoria, NSW or even back to England. So have no confirmation as to whom he married.

I took another look at the ICI records to see if i could find any William Thomas and Sarah all with the same place of birth and same parents but the only ones I could find were from Nottingham - Will 22 Oct 1815 Bradmore, Thomas 1818, and Sarah 1808- which can't be right as Sarahs birth was much later ( from her death record she was born 1819).



So. back to the certificate... if Charlotte Jacques and Thomas are on the certificate they are connected.
Thomas in 1844 so Charlotte is not his wife.
If it reads Charlotte Jacques nee B...k it usually means she was a Black but is now a Jacques.
Thus there is also a Charlotte Jacques who married a John Black and who came from Port Stewart or Dublin Ireland in 185? ??
Then there is an alleged John a brother of Charlotte Jacques so perhaps this Charlotte was the sibling of John and William and cousins of our lot.
On an ancestry post appeared some info stating there was a letter sent from John to Charlotte when they were in Ireland. John and wife had a daughter Alicia. When John's wife died, Alicia did not get along with the step mother when he remarried ( Mary Smith) and so she came to live with her aunty Charlotte here in Australia.

So I am still thinking there are two Charlottes both related- a Charlotte Jacques with brother John who married John Black and a Charlotte Black who married a Jacques ( perhaps William as he is the only male Jacques I know of who hasn't got a wife! Robert is married to Ann Newman. Thomas is married to Sarah.

They may have resided in England and then moved to Ireland.
To confuse the issue further, going back to the mid to late 1600s there were Jacques living in Scotland and Ireland who fled France- Robert, Guillaume and Jean and a Jacob. Unfortunately there are a few gaps in between and haven't found any trees with info on their descendants. I took a look at the Jacques from Yorkshire that I found on a tree. They stem from a Christopher b 1792 Doncaster married Ann Ward.... had John Jacques 1672 married Mary King.... had Charles b 1742 and William b 1739 married ???? ..... had Ann 1760, Eliz 1763, Mary 1768 James 1770 and Robert b 1758 married Ann????.

Robert had William b 1790 m Martha Malkin.. residing 1851 and 1861 census. ( Sunderland St). They had Robert 1816, Elizabeth, William 1821, Thomas 1825 Ann 1832, Mary 1836, Fanny 1841. By this stage we are at the same time when they came here. Is not our Robert b 1809 ( confirmed from death records in SA) although could be connected like 4th cousins.
It was stated that John Jacques - Charlotte's brother was a gifted guilder and carver- 39 Temple Bar St Andrews Dublin 1850 and 1851 at 10 Aunger?? St. Charlotte was at Coleraine Northern Ireland.

I have looked fro Ireland censuses but can't seem to find any info!
If she is in Ireland in 1851 then they must have emigrated about 1855.

 

[thehearns]

Have you discovered any more about Sarah Jacques from Marylebone?