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Where was Arthur Bird all those years?

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#1
My purported grandfather, Arthur Bird (born 13 Sept 1885 in Ashfield) married Nellie Jean Allan in 1909 and my father was born in 1924. However the electoral records don't confirm they were living together during those years. In fact the last official records of Arthur living at the same address as his wife are his army enlistment forms from 1919. He was said to be a bit of a free spirit so I have given him the benefit of the doubt that he visited my grandmother about 9 months prior to dad's birth. However I have not been able to find any info about him at all from 1919 until he died on 12 Aug 1936 in a convalescent hospital in Vaucluse. Since there was one family story about a distraught women coming to the house saying she was his fiancee, I suspect he just went off and set up a new family. Does anyone out there have any clues? I've tried searching for later marriage records but to no avail.
- jeffbird
 

gibbo

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#2
Hi there,
Do you have your fathers birth cert.? Is Arthur named as father on it and have you tired to see if Arthur is on the electoral register for the address on the birth cert? Your dad's birth cert. should also state Arthur's occupation, maybe he worked away from home. Also sometimes death certs. have good info depending on who the informant was and how well they knew the deceased. It may have whether Arthur was married and who to.

gibbo
 
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gibbo

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#3
:eek: I just found something BUT i do not know if the information is correct or not but could be something for you to check out.

Ok i found this, there appears to be 2 marriages for Arthur ... Nellie and a Adeline:confused: IF this info is correct he married Adeline in 1916 while he was married to Nellie as he married Nellie in 1909 and she is on his army records as wife in 1918.

Charlotte COTTERELL (1856) of Sydney, NSW [3]
: . . +George Robert BIRD; 1880, Sydney, NSW [2]
: . . . Lillian M. BIRD (1882) of Redfern, Sydney, NSW [2]
: . . . Arthur E. BIRD (1887) of Redfern, Sydney, NSW [2]
: . . . +Nellie J. ALLAN; 1909, Rockdale, Sydney, NSW [2]
: . . . +Adeline J. V. O'BRIEN; 1916, Rockdale, Sydney, NSW [2]

I found the above info on this link .. have to scroll down a bit to get to it. Keep in mind that some information on sites can be wrong and to always double check what you find. You maybe able to confirm if the above Arthur is yours or not by siblings names and parents.
http://www.roots-boots.net/ft/t-cotrel.txt

I then checked for marriages for Arthur and Adeline in NSW and found this

1315/1916 BIRD ARTHUR E BRIEN ADELINE J V ROCKDALE
1315/1916 BIRD ARTHUR E U'BRIEN ADELINE J ROCKDALE
1315/1916 BIRD ARTHUR E UBRIEN ADELINE J ROCKDALE

Maybe the marriage cert. for Arthur and Adeline will confirm if it is infact your Arthur or not. I will keep looking and see if i can find anything else that may help.

gibbo
 
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gibbo

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#4
Hi,
I have been doing some digging around and i think the info i found on that link as below is wrong.

Charlotte COTTERELL (1856) of Sydney, NSW [3]
: . . +George Robert BIRD; 1880, Sydney, NSW [2]
: . . . Lillian M. BIRD (1882) of Redfern, Sydney, NSW [2]
: . . . Arthur E. BIRD (1887) of Redfern, Sydney, NSW [2]
: . . . +Nellie J. ALLAN; 1909, Rockdale, Sydney, NSW [2]
: . . . +Adeline J. V. O'BRIEN; 1916, Rockdale, Sydney, NSW [2]

I did some checking on the nsw birth index and found this on births for Arthur Bird. As your Arthur was born 1885 in Ashfield im assuming his parents were Henry and Margaret. The other Arthur with parents George and Charlotte is obviously not yours and they have their info wrong with their Arthur marrying Nellie.

5887/1885 BIRD ARTHUR HENRY MARGARET ASHFIELD
11159/1887 BIRD ARTHUR GEORGE CHARLOTTE REDFERN

Back to square one ... im still looking.
 
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#5
Gibbo
Thanks for all of your digging. Yes I have Arthur's birth and death certificates which confirm he has only a single christian name (no "E" middle initial) and that his parents were Henry and Margaret. Unfortunately the informant on the death certificate was merely someone at the hospital and most of the personal questions (marriage, children, place of birth etc) have the note "not known". As he died of pneumonia in a convalescent home and didn't appear to have provided any personal details to the staff, I assume he must have been found on the street or in circumstances where he only had some basic identifying documents in his posession. It only lists his age, occupation (labourer) and name. I have a copy of his employment records for 1913-17 when he worked with the railways and his army papers for 1919 but have not been able to find him on any electoral rolls or other documents until his death.
The fact that he was born and died in Sydney made me feel that he had not left the state but maybe he was out of NSW all those years until his death. I was just hoping he might have had a second family somewhere that could fill in the gap.
- jeffbird
 

gibbo

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#6
Your welcome, just sorry i couldnt find anything on him. With your locaton been in Sydney have you thought of a visit to the NSW state archives? Its just a thought but someone there maybe able to help you find some trace of him in the missing years. Have you checked to see if he had a will? If i think of anything will add it on here for you.

gibbo
 
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gibbo

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#7
Just for interest if you havent already seen this.

The Sydney Morning Herald
Tuesday 16 June 1914

FALL FROM RAILWAY ENGINE.
At about 4.30 .t.m. yesterday Arthur Bird, 27, firempn, In the employ of tho Railway Du purtment, and residing at 113 Victoria-strcot, Lewisham, was following his occupation Ht Darling Harbour, when he fell from his en- gine. The Civil Ambulance conveyed him to Sydney Hospital, where ho was admitted by Dr. Smith suflerlng from- shock.
 

juliejtp

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#8
This could be the same Arthur Bird that Gibbo found.

Electoral Roll 1930

Stae NSW
District Reid
Sub District Auburn North

Arthur Bird, State Hospital, Auburn, Fireman, M

He is still there in 1933
 
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#9
Thanks guys. This is fascinating information. It certainly sounds like him because he is listed on most official documents as "fireman", even though he seems to have ceased working as a firemanwhen he was sacked during the great railways strike of 1914. Any ideas if the records of Auburn Hospital are available for scrutiny?
- jeff
 

gibbo

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#10
Thanks guys. This is fascinating information. It certainly sounds like him because he is listed on most official documents as "fireman", even though he seems to have ceased working as a firemanwhen he was sacked during the great railways strike of 1914. Any ideas if the records of Auburn Hospital are available for scrutiny?
- jeff
Hi Jeff,
I read his army records and found he was a fireman so thought the newspaper article could possibly be him. As for the medical records i would assume that the NSW state archives may have them but as far as i know there is a 100 year seal on medical records if they have survived. With one lot of records i quiried about once they wouldnt tell me much but they did give me admission dates etc but no personal information. A trip to the archives could be worthwhile as they may have other records that could help.
I did find another newspaper article where a Arthur Bird is mentioned, i do not know if it is your Arthur or not but will find it again and post it on here for you to have a look at anyway.

gibbo
 

gibbo

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#11
Maybe your Arthur ... bit hard to say when there is more than one with the same name. See what you think.


The Sydney Morning Herald
Saturday 11 April 1931

POLICEMAN ASSAULTED.
SIX MEN FOR TRIAL.
An attack upon Constable Hokln when _. endeavoured to stop a brawl In a hotel ai Concord West on March 21, resulted In the appearance of six men at the Burwood Court yesterday.
Horace George Bradley, 38, William Shan. non, 27, Sydney Shannon, 30, slaughtermen, Allan Mason, 32, a butcher, Roy Morrison South, 27, a carter, and Robert Alexander Morrison, 44, an offalman, were committed for trial by Air. Shepherd. S.M., on a charge of having assaulted Hokin occasioning him actual bodily harm.
According to Arthur Bird, he was in U> hotel on March 20 when Bradley mistook i Returned Soldiers" League Badge he was wear- ing for an AJP.A. League badge. Bridle! made some Insulting remarks, declaring that te belonged to the A.L.P., and that members of his party had been advised to guara against A.P.A. members. The following day he was in the hotel when three of the de- fendants, including, Bradley, attacked him.
Constable Hokin, who was in plain clothes and off duty, said that when he was called Into the bar he advised the men to stop, and Mason rushed at him and tripped him, and then he was beaten by a number of men,
Bail was allowed at £40 in each case.
 
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#13
It is certainly John Street, Ashfield but doesn't give a street number. Why are you asking? Have you found something else about him?

Re the newspaper account of the pub brawl, I doubt that is him. I can't imagine he was in the RSL because he didn't get past training when the war ended and it seems he was in Auburn hospital from 1930-33. Julie, how did you find him on the electoral roll? I thought they were only accessible via the card indexes and microfiche at the State Library . I spent a whole day unsuccessfully trawling through them. Is there another way of searching them?

- jeff
 

crankypants

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#14
Hi Jeff

You may already have some of these details on Arthur's parents.

1903 N.S.W Electoral Roll – Parkes (Ashfield Polling Place)
BIRD Henry, 5 John street, labourer
BIRD Margaret, 5 John street, domestic duties

1885 N.S.W Sands Directory
BIRD Henry, John st, Ashfield

1910 N.S.W Sands Directory
BIRD H, 5 John st, Ashfield

The Sydney Morning Herald... Thursday 23 July 1914, page 8. Family Notices 1822 words.
BIRD.-In sad but loving memory of my dear husband.
Henry Bird, who departed this life July 23, at John-street, Ashfield. Inserted by his loving wife, Margaret Bird.

The Sydney Morning Herald... Saturday 2 August 1913, page 14. Family Notices 7381 words
Mrs. HENRY BIRD and FAMILY desire to THANK . The many kind friends and. neighbours for letters, cards, and kind expressions of sympathy in their late sad loss of husband and father.

NSW Death
10893/1913 BIRD HENRY 72 YRS ASHFIELD ASHFIELD

cheers
crankypants
 
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#15
Thanks for that. No I didn't have that info previously because I'm still not convinced that Arthur was my grandfather, except in the official sense (ie my grandmother put his name on Dad's birth certificate because she had married him 15 years earlier and they had not been divorced). That's why I am so keen to fill in the years after he left the army in 1919 and his death in 1936.
- jeff
 

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