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Which do I believe

Northerngeezer

Active member
Location
Manchester
From
England
I'm in a quandary, my grandfathers death certificate shows him as 73 when he died in 1962, putting his year of birth as 1889.
His marriage certificate shows him as 36 in 1930 putting his year of birth as 1894.............................which is right??
To complicate the matter, if he WAS born in 1889 he would have been 41 when he got married, not 36, my grandmother was 24, potentially 17 years younger o_O
I have yet to find my grandfathers birth, it could be under 2 variations in his surname and potentially in 3 area's of the country :rolleyes:
I have his death certificate and his marriage certificate but neither have given me much information.
Any help would be gratefully appreciated.
 
do you know if he had any siblings.. or name of his mum/dad? did your father ever mention anything about his parents? did he have any siblings?
 
Age from marriage certificate probably more accurate.

This can be moved to the private forum if required.
 
If i had a choice probably go with the marriage certificate, as he would have been present to fill in the information, death certificates, even tho a good source most times for information can be wrong due to informant of death not knowing the correct information.
 
do you know if he had any siblings.. or name of his mum/dad? did your father ever mention anything about his parents? did he have any siblings?
Our surname is DAVIS but we believe grandad at birth was DAVIES, the reason for the change and when is unknown.
Grandads full name was Thomas James DAVIS and is listed on his marriage and death certificates as such, his father is listed as Thomas Davis deceased on grandads marriage certificate but as he was dead I presume the registrar just used the same spelling.
His witness at the marriage appears to be a friend and not a relative.
Great grandad is listed as a farmer and that ties in with the little I found out chatting to my dad.
He had a brother called Harry who my dad is named after, other siblings unknown but I'm sure there were.
I've got Grandads service records and his DOB is listed as 01/07/1888, born in Hereford, which calls in to question the potential DOB of 1894 gleaned from his marriage certificate.
Also, checking on FreeBMD there is no one under that name for 1894 but there IS a listing in Q3 for 1888 so I think I might have found him.
Any further help would be gratefully appreciated and thanks for your help.
 
DAVIES, THOMAS JAMES - ASHTON
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in HEREFORD Volume 06A Page 464

Many records are recorded as they are heard so expect differences. I have several Davis/Davies in my tree and the names alternate in records which makes it a bit harder to trace being a rather common name.

Is Harry younger or older than Thomas?

??
DAVIES, HARRY - ASHTON
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in HEREFORD Volume 06A Page 509
 
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ASHTON, CECILIA - BALDWIN
GRO Reference: 1854 M Quarter in WARRINGTON Volume 08C Page 143

WILDBORE, MAGGIE - ASHTON
GRO Reference: 1883 M Quarter in PRESCOT Volume 08B Page 790

Marriages Jun Qtr 1877
ALTON Robert Prescott 8b 908
ASHTON Cecilia Prescott 8b 908
SHEPPERD Annie Prescot 8b 908
WILDBORE William Prescott 8b 908

??
Deaths Mar Qtr 1884
Wildbore William 44 Prescot 8b 467
 
Last edited:
?
1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4RTJ-MZM

Thomas James ??

There are several Thomas Davies born England abt 1888 in Wales in 1891.

This is getting rather strange.

DAVIES, CECILIA WILDBORE - ASHTON
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in HEREFORD Volume 06A Page 497

Birth reg for Sarah ?

There are several births in Lancs abt 1880 for a Sarah Ashton with no mother's maiden name.
 
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going with Dave's postings...
1901 census has
Thomas Davies 46 b Hereford a cooper
Cecilia wife 46 b Lancashire
Maggie daug 18 b Lancashire - Wildbore - married David Hughes as Davies in 1907 and was living in Wales by 1911 census
Anne daug 10 b Hereford
Thomas James son 12 b same
Harry son 2 b same
at 20 Holmer road – Holmer – Hereford

1911 father Thomas, Cecilia and Harry age 18 still at 20 Holmer road – Harry’s a cooper – Cask maker

father Thomas died Oct qtr 1916 Hereford Vol 6a page 656 age 61

for Cecilia
Cecilia Ashton baptised 19 March 1854 Farnworth nr Prescot Lancs – Richard Ashton & Cecilia Baldwin (1821-1899) – parents married 28 Aug 1842 St Mary (now St Helen’s) Lancs

married 1st 28 May 1877 Christ Church Eccleston Lancs – William Wilbore (1839-1884)
on 1881 census at 141 Sutton Road Sutton Lancs with baby William Brewitt Wildbore (1880-1881)
they had Maggie Wildbore Jan 1883 Sutton – husband dies Jan 1884

no marriage found for Cecilia to Thomas Davis/Davies by 1901

they are on 1891 census at Highmore Street – Holmer

Harry marries a Winifred Annie Owen in 1928 Hereford

did Thomas marry a Marion E Chad in 1930? and stay in the area?
 
DAVIES, THOMAS JAMES - ASHTON
GRO Reference: 1888 S Quarter in HEREFORD Volume 06A Page 464

Many records are recorded as they are heard so expect differences. I have several Davis/Davies in my tree and the names alternate in records which makes it a bit harder to trace being a rather common name.

Is Harry younger or older than Thomas?

??
DAVIES, HARRY - ASHTON
GRO Reference: 1893 J Quarter in HEREFORD Volume 06A Page 509
Not sure about my grandads siblings yet but thanks for the GRO link, it would apperar Harry was his younger brother though.
I think the issue here is the fact they lived in a rural parish rather than a town, grandad would appear to be the first to leave, a family story is he went searching adventure in the USA so theres another quest to follow, we pick him up when he came back to fight in WW1.
Your right about common surnames though, my wifes family has a real unusual one and has been easy to find, within a couple of hours i've got back to 1775 :giggle:
 
going with Dave's postings...
1901 census has
Thomas Davies 46 b Hereford a cooper
Cecilia wife 46 b Lancashire
Maggie daug 18 b Lancashire - Wildbore - married David Hughes as Davies in 1907 and was living in Wales by 1911 census
Anne daug 10 b Hereford
Thomas James son 12 b same
Harry son 2 b same
at 20 Holmer road – Holmer – Hereford

1911 father Thomas, Cecilia and Harry age 18 still at 20 Holmer road – Harry’s a cooper – Cask maker

father Thomas died Oct qtr 1916 Hereford Vol 6a page 656 age 61

for Cecilia
Cecilia Ashton baptised 19 March 1854 Farnworth nr Prescot Lancs – Richard Ashton & Cecilia Baldwin (1821-1899) – parents married 28 Aug 1842 St Mary (now St Helen’s) Lancs

married 1st 28 May 1877 Christ Church Eccleston Lancs – William Wilbore (1839-1884)
on 1881 census at 141 Sutton Road Sutton Lancs with baby William Brewitt Wildbore (1880-1881)
they had Maggie Wildbore Jan 1883 Sutton – husband dies Jan 1884

no marriage found for Cecilia to Thomas Davis/Davies by 1901

they are on 1891 census at Highmore Street – Holmer

Harry marries a Winifred Annie Owen in 1928 Hereford

did Thomas marry a Marion E Chad in 1930? and stay in the area?

The Holmer Rd thing is bang on, its listed as his address in his service records :giggle:
Not sure what he was up to relationship wise before he married my nan but i suspect with a potential adventurous trip to the USA and his military service he dint have time for anything serious.
Thanks for your help along the journey
 
?
1891
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:4RTJ-MZM

Thomas James ??

There are several Thomas Davies born England abt 1888 in Wales in 1891.

This is getting rather strange.

DAVIES, CECILIA WILDBORE - ASHTON
GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in HEREFORD Volume 06A Page 497

Birth reg for Sarah ?

There are several births in Lancs abt 1880 for a Sarah Ashton with no mother's maiden name.

My understanding is he spent all his early life in Hereford and left under a cloud in his late teens/early 20s for adventure in the USA, I think this maybe when he identified our surname as DAVIS to sound more English and less Welsh.
I think its a common trait for young men in farming communities to think there must be more to life than ploughing fields and raking out muck :sneaky:
 
My understanding is he spent all his early life in Hereford and left under a cloud in his late teens/early 20s for adventure in the USA, I think this maybe when he identified our surname as DAVIS to sound more English and less Welsh.
I think its a common trait for young men in farming communities to think there must be more to life than ploughing fields and raking out muck :sneaky:
The Family Search link is correct, 1891 census showing Cecilia and Thomas.
Thomas James, my grandfather, would be 3 in 1891 and the fact he is missing off the census when his siblings are in attendance is a mystery, unless of course he was elsewhere at the time.
I've found a potential Sarah Ann Davies, GRO Reference: 1879 Q2 6A/514...................................Its all starting to come together, except the marriage of Cecilia and Thomas :cautious:
 
?
1901
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X9BR-B51

DAVIES, ANNIE - ASHTON
GRO Reference: 1891 M Quarter in HEREFORD Volume 06A Page 501

Birth reg for Maggie ?

Marriage for Thomas to Cecilia Ashton ?? Or I've made a mistake?
The Thomas/Cecilia marriage is foxing me too, she in Warrington he in Hereford, how did they meet, its around 150 miles distance and I would have thought as a cooper his work kept in in one place.
 
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