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Will the real John Williams please stand up!

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#1
Hi,

Looking for some assistance researching my great grandfather John Williams.

I know his name was John after ordering my grandparents wedding certificate, Christopher J Williams / Frances Mahon 1946 in West Derby Liverpool. I know Christopher had a sister called Mary who married a person by the surname of "Page". "Christopher J Williams" was born in 1915 in West Derby. I know this is him because he died aged 66 in 1982. His middle name was "James". Johns profession on their marriage certificate appears to be "Motor Factory ...." their is some more text but illegible to my eyes.

The birth record for Christopher on FREEBMD stated a mothers maiden name of "Tracey", I have done a search for Mary and found a match with the maiden name of "Tracey" also a year prior. "Tracey" is the only common maiden name that I can find in this region which matched both a christopher and mary around this time period so I am pretty confident its correct.

I then searched for a Williams / Tracey marriage and found one in 1909 in west derby. I ordered the certificate, it states John Williams was 21 years of age (1888 ), Mary Tracey was 18 (1891) . John's father was "James Williams" occupation "Plasterers Labourer". Alot of the certificate i am struggling deciphering the handwriting such as church/street names which may lead me to census documents that may help me further. I can make out that they both lived at seperate addresses on their certificate, both being in West Derby. If anyone would like to see a scan of it please ask.

I have found a few users trees on ancestry which appears to be connected to mine.
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/3002289/family?cfpid=-1790012827
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/22703959/family/familyview
http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/3889853/family/familyview

They confirm a Williams/Tracey marriage, this top link has got further than myself but I am not sure theirs is correct so I am taking it with a pinch of salt as he has John's father also listed as John were I know it is actually James based on the marriage certificate. He also has John's middle name as "Wilbraham" and born in Newton le willows. I have no evidence of how they know this as they have no records attatched to back it up? John is showing as married to a Harriet. I have messaged this user to determine the source of their information but has not got back to me as yet.

Any ideas on how I can proceed would be much appreciated as I cannot order a birth certificate as it could be one of many?
 
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oznannie

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#9
I hope this helps :)
1901 census
James Williams 49? plaster's labr bn Manchester
Harriet 47, Joseph 22 sorry can't read occ coffee??
George 18 plaster's app, Harriet 16, JOHN 13 errand boy,
son? W.A? 4yrs all born Lpool
94 Deven?? Street St Anne's District.
RG13/3422/30/24

Oznannie
 
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#14
I notice that there is a birth of John G Williams in dec qtr 1919 West Derby to mother Tracey. This is the only other record 1911/1930 W. Derby apart from Christopher 1915 and Mary 1914, so I think he could be yours.

dave
 
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#16
Cheers everyone for your pointers much appreciated. :D

oznannie good shout with the atherton/tracey marriage. It does looked like they lived together for a period. What site did you use to search Gores/Kellys Directories? First time I have ever heard of these directories but may prove useful as I have lots of family from Liverpool that I am still researching.

How likely is it that the James Williams mentioned on the 1901 census below (RG13/3422/30/24) is my ancestor? I know the occupation fits and it all seems to tie together nicely but because the name "John Williams" is so common I cannot simply order a birth certificate without taking a stab in the dark.

Is there any steps I could take to proving it for sure or it just a case of going with my instincts?

Oznannie, I too thoughts the addresses on the marriage certificate along the lines of Talbot street and Gutherie Street. I could not find these on google / bing maps in liverpool that's what made me think I was just not transcribing them very well, is it possible they do not exist anymore?
 
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#19
Hi gjc
Kellys/Gores Directories are not online.
I purchased copies of them years ago.
Sadly not available anymore.
I also have 1911.
Here's the link to a great site for searching streets.
Cheers
Oznannie


http://www.liverpoolhistoryprojects.co.uk/liverpoolaz/streets.htm#G
That is a great link and will be really helpful to me with the rest of my liverpool ancestors aswell! Just comparing them streets to a modern day map its amazing how much the city has changed. Guthrie street and surrounding streets was flattened for a dual carriage way. I can't believe I was nieve enough to think that the streets should still exist now when i first started looking for them on google maps. Thats why I thought I was not transcribing the certificate properly. Thanks again
 

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