William COWLING/ Ellen CORDER

[brentor boy]

These two names appear on the same page on the register for Poplar Dec Q 1901. According to an on-line family tree they married each other but there is no detail and I have been unable to contact the tree owner.

I am interested in discovering the birth place of William but cannot find the family in 1911. It is possible that by that time they had a daughter, Ellen Loiusa, born 1902.

I would welcome any help to establish where William was born and to find out what happened to this family.

 

[davelambert271]

Hi

Banns were read at Victoria Park St. Marks, Tower Hamlets on Nov 24, Dec 1st and 8 for the marriage of William Cowling and Ellen Corder

dave

 

[davelambert271]

I think this is William in 1901.
Ellen 22 Hackney (RG13-230-74-14) is with parents Robert 60 and Ann 56
1901 England Census

William Cowling

Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1879
Relation:Boarder
Where born: Hackney Wk, London, England
occupation Carman, fish offal

Civil parish: West Ham
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: Essex
CountryEngland
Registration district: West Ham
Sub-registration district: Plaistow

Piece: 1570
Folio: 117
Page Number 5

William Bentley 26
Emily Bentley 25
William J Bentley 1
William Cowling 22

birth Dec qtr 1916
Cowling Thomas J Cord[e_]r Hackney 1b 858

dave

 

[brentor boy]

Thanks, Dave. Have you been able to trace them in 1911? The on-line tree, which I believe is suspect, gives William's place of birth as Devon. I am interested in a William Cowling, born Devon 1877, but I do not think that Ellen's husband is mine. This is an exercise in elimination.

 

[davelambert271]

Hi

No sorry didn't find them in 1911 as I was looking for a birthplace in London.

Can you say what info you have which is applicable to you. Are Ellen Condor and the two children Ellen and Thomas yours? What have you got which is known which will help identify your family

dave

 

[p.risboy]

Ellen Louisa Cowling
Baptism
Date: 18 May 1902
Father - William Cowling. Occ. Carrier.
Mother - Ellen Cowling
Parish or Poor Law Union - Hackney Wick
Hackney
Parish Registers.


Address - 2, Percy Ter. (I assume that to be Terrace.)


Steve.

 

[horse]

Hi

I suspect the tree is on Anc. Though it is plausible providing William's father died before 1901. Williams' marriage record doesn't suggest that William's father, Henry is 'late or deceased'. It also mentions that his father is a Carman, interestingly so is William in 1901 (the one that Dave found). Witnesses, Richard Corder (likely to be Ellens' Brother) and Ethel Hill. Ellen is living at 2 Percy Terrace.
Name: William Cowling
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1878
Age: 23
Spouse Name: Ellen Corder
Spouse Age: 23
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 15 Dec 1901
Parish: Victoria Park St Mark
Borough: Tower Hamlets
Father Name: Henry Cowling
Spouse Father Name: Robert Corder
Register Type: Parish Register

Ellen Louisa's bap. address is 2 Percy Street, so they probably moved to Ellen Sr's address following the marriage.

Ellen's Sr's birth reg. may have been wrongly transcribed as Cordery:
Q4 1878 Ellen Cordery, Hackney [1b, 523]

William Cowling may have been b. in Mary Tavy, Devon: William George [1b, 385], none of the details so far has mentioned [George as middle name]. There is also a William Thomas, Newton Abbot [5b, 152]
In 1901, Tavy St Mary, census (RG13; Piece: 2119; Folio: 45; Page: 4) if him, was in Devon (occ: stone mason) with his mother Mary and brother Charley (surname perhaps wrongly transcribed as Cowleiy). By Dec 1901 he was in Hackney and Married Not impossible if prearranged.

Without the 1911 census it is going to be difficult to prove it is the correct William!

Any chance they emigrated for a while?

Geoff

 

[horse]

Hi

FMP has this entry:

COWLING William
Birth: 1880
***: M
Dep. Yr: 1904
Dep. Port: Liverpool
Dest. Country:Canada
Dest. Port: Saint John NB

Geoff

 

[davelambert271]

I've been looking at the Mary Tavy, Devon family, Mary is a widow in 1891, but her husband in 1881 is Henry, William's father's name

dave

 

[horse]

Hi Dave & BB

I couldn't find a death for Henry though. If this is the case then it is looking more likely to be the correct William.

Geoff

 

[brentor boy]

Thanks Steve, Geoff and Dave for you interest and offerings.

William George Cowling of Mary Tavy was my great uncle. His father, Henry, a miner,died in 1883 in India where he was working in the Mysore Gold Fields. This occupation contrasts with that stated to be that of the father of William, husband of Ellen.

Now for some speculation. What if WGC left Devon after the 1901 census and went to London "to seek his fortune". He then found himself having to marry Ellen - the birth of their daughter was just 5 months after the marriage. He then returned to Devon, with or without his family.

In May 1904 a William Cowling, aged 27, sailed from Liverpool to Canada on "Dominion". On embarkation he was shown as a farmer but when ha landed in Montreal he was described as a bricklayer from Tavistock. In 1901 WGC was recorded as a stone mason and Tavistock is the town just 5 miles from his home village.

If WGC remained in Canada, either alone or accompanied by his family, until after 1911 this could explain why they are missing from the UK census and also why there appears such a gap between their two children. As WGC was only 5 when his father, Henry, left for India, perhaps inaccuracy regarding his occupation is understandable.

All this is conjecture and as a copy marriage is unlikely to provide any additional useful information, further documentary evidence is required. If any of you are able to are able to throw more light on the subject, I shall be very grateful

 

[brentor boy]

I think I have almost convinced myself that William, husband of Ellen, is not William George Cowling of Mary Tavy.

In 1881 there is a William Alexr Cowling, born 1878, London, living with his Grandparents (Cowling) and his mother, Elizabeth Ann Bond, in St Paul Shadwell. Elizabeth Ann Cowling married Samuel Bond Mar Q 1881, Mile End. The only William Cowling I can find born in London around the relevant time is one registered in Lambeth Mar Q 1878. If these two entries refer to the same person, and the child was of an unknown father, the information provided at his marriage is inevitably misleading. The choice of the name of Henry for his father points, quite erroneously, to William of Mary Tavy.

I would welcome any critique of my theory.

 

[davelambert271]

Have a look at RG12-201-34-61
Parents Henry Cowling 44, Eliza 33 + 6 children inc William 8. Is this the same william I posted on post No 3
and if so did he lie about his age.

dave

 

[brentor boy]

Dave, I think you may have cracked it. Certainly names, occupation and geography (East London) all fit. I had reservations about my previous suggestion as that William seems to have been born south of the river. Perhaps William had to be "of full age" before being employed as a driver and so advanced his age - who knows?

Anyway, as I hope I made it clear in my earlier posts, my objective was to prove a negative - that William George Cowling of Mary Tavy did NOT marry Ellen Corder. I am satisfied that there is sufficient doubt for any jury to find him "not guilty" so I intend to let my case rest. I think this is as far as I can take it. Thanks for your invaluable help.