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William John BARNES

DaveHam9

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#1
Hello,

NSW Bap V18427325 45C/1842 BARNES WILLIAM J - JOHN - ELIZABETH K

Spouse or sister or daughter ???

1913 NSW Electoral Roll - GLEBE - TOXTETH-ROAD POLLING-PLACE
171 BARNES Mary Ellen, 15 Avenue-road, domestic duties
172 BARNES William John, 15 Avenue-road, independent means


Death 8949/1926 BARNES WILLIAM J - JOHN - ELIZABETH - GLEBE

The Sydney Morning Herald - Wednesday 5 May 1926 p.14
DEATHS
BARNES.-May 4, 1926, at his residence, Murillo, Avenue-road, Glebe Point, William John Barnes, late of Murrumburrah and Goulburn, aged 84 years. By request, no flowers.


John & Elizabeth had twin daughters born 9 Jan 1839 but no one seems to know where they were born.

Elizabeth Jane and Mary Ellen - no marriage or death found for either. It's even possible both where born in England and died there. Shipping record is no help:

Barque 'Abbotsford'
Master: Hicks
Origin: London 1840 Nov 26
Destination: Sydney 1841 Apr 5
Cargo merchandise
Barnes Mr and family
Walker Mr and Mrs
Walpole Mr
9 in steerage

They left before 1841 census. Damn them. :2fun:

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#3
Thanks gibbo. :)

Over the years I have been in contact with several researchers of the BARNES family and seems so much is speculation. Death certificates missing. Marriage and births can't be found. Can't even agree how many of the children who were born in England made it to Australia.


Marriage 592/1862 BARNES WILLIAM JOHN - BROWN JANET - SYDNEY

The Sydney Morning Herald - Friday 18 July 1862 p.1
MARRIAGES
On the 16th instant, at her mother's residence, Bourke-street, Woolloomooloo, by the Rev. J. McGibbon, W. Barnes, Esq., son of John Barnes, Esq., of Murrumburrah, to Janet, second daughter of the late W. Brown, Esq.

Death 14244/1906 BARNES JANET - WILLIAM - JANET - ST LEONARDS

BARNES Janet Death notice 16NOV1906 Death late of North Sydney, Murrumburra and Goulburn SMH 17NOV1906

Children
1074/1863 BARNES WILLIAM J WILLIAM JANET SYDNEY
1369/1864 BARNES GEORGE R WILLIAM J JANET SYDNEY
2516/1866 BARNES COLIN E WILLIAM J JANET BALMAIN
1175/1869 BARNES PERCY A WILLIAM J JANET SYDNEY &
2428/1873 BARNES THOMAS A B WILLIAM J JANET SYDNEY
22450/1875 BARNES MARY ISABELLA WILLIAM JOHN JANET YOUNG
14005/1886 BARNES OLIVE MURIEL WILLIAM J JANET GOULBURN

Percy A married a Mary Ellen.

Death 16601/1934 BARNES PERCY A - WILLIAM J - JANET - MURRUMBURRAH

BARNES Mary Ellen Death notice 31MAY1948 Death 68 at Sacred Heart Hospital, Young, late of Murrumburrah SMH 04JUN1948

The Sydney Morning Herald - Friday 4 June 1948 p.14
DEATHS
BARNES Mary Ellen.-May 31, at Sacred Heart Hospital Young, relict late Percy A. Barnes of Murrumburrah, aged 68 years. R.I.P.

But Percy A and Mary E are in Hume in 1930 and Mary died in Young which is in Hume Division so I can't see that she would be in Sydney in 1913 with her father-in-law. Possible I suppose. Janet died 1906 so possibly a 2nd marriage 1906-1913.


This one will take some time so it will have to be tomorrow evening or later. I'm off early tomorrow for a bus trip to Picton area.
 

horse

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#6
May be them in England..

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
John Barnes
Spouse: Elizabeth King Ellen
Banns
30 Jun 1833
Parish: St Antholin Budge Row
Borough: City of London

Pallot's Marriage Index for England: 1780 - 1837
John Barnes
Spouse: Elizth Ellen
1833
Parish: St Antholin and St John The Baptist

Geoff
 

DaveHam9

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#7
Thanks Geoff.

That's the right one. IGI has 14 July 1833.

It's not easy trying to work out how many children were born in England and how many of those ended up in Australia.

We know this one was born in England and died in Australia:

Baptised 12 Nov 1837 St Dunstan's Stepney, Middlesex

Burial V1841680 25B/1841 BARNES WILLIAM J INFANT

Reel 5006
Burials in the Parish of St. Lawrence Sydney in the County of Cumberland in the year 1841
No 236 William John Barnes - Abode: Elizabeth St. South - 16/17 ? - Oct 17 Oct - 7 yrs father an Office Clerk By whom the Ceremony was performed: J. Troughton

This one must have been born in NSW:

Bap V18427325 45C/1842 BARNES WILLIAM J JOHN ELIZABETH K

Page 140
Presbyterian Baptisms solemnized in the Parish of St. Andrew's Scots Church Sydney in the County of Cumberland in the Year 1853
No When Baptised: 27 Sept. When Born: 25 March 1842 William John - John Barnes & Elizabeth King Ellen Abode: Surry Hills Quality or Profession: Merchant By whom the Ceremony was performed: Rev. Robert Stewart


Dave
 

horse

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#8
I couldn't find the marriage, only the Pallot's, which is not too informative... just trying to find the offspring prior to departure... A few trees, not too helpful, though they indicate he was from Bedfordshire..
 

DaveHam9

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#9
This one born in England and died NSW 1902 - Albert and Alfred in different records:

Thomas A - Baptised 12 Nov 1837 St Dunstan's Stepney, Middlesex

Death 14784/1902 BARNES THOMAS A - JOHN - ELIZABETH K - MURRUMBURRAH

The Sydney Morning Herald - Saturday 25 October 1902 p.1
Deaths.
BARNES.-October 20, 1902, at Murrumburrah, Thomas Alfred Barnes, aged 66 years.
 

DaveHam9

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#10
Can't find the source for this:

John - Baptised 27 Jun 1812 Bletsoe

John's Death Certificate Reg No. 06635. Died 30 Aug 1863 at Wollenbeen, Burrangong. John was shot and killed by John O'Malley, Bush Ranger. His Father is Joseph Barnes. Occ. Brewer: Mother: Elizabeth Pickering. Where Born England. Time in Colony 22yrs in NSW. Married: London Age at Marriage 21. Spouse Elizabeth King. Children of Marriage 5 Males 1 Female Living. 1 Male 2 Females Deceased.

The Sydney Morning Herald - Thursday 10 September 1863 p.1
DEATHS
On the 30th August, shot by bushrangers near Wallenbeen station, Mr. John Barnes, of Murrumburrah, late of Sydney and Melbourne, and formerly of 111 Wood-street, Cheapside, London, aged 51 years.


The Elizabeth PICKERING bit may or may not be correct - trees don't agree and some info can't be verified.
 

DaveHam9

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#11
Another son born England and died NSW 1915:

John Frederick - Baptised 12 Nov 1837 Saint Dunstan, Stepney

Death 7071/1915 BARNES JOHN F - JOHN - ELIZABETH E - HURSTVILLE

BARNES John Frederick Death notice 22APR1915 Publication 77 at The Retreat, Connell's Bay, Hurstville, late of Cootamundra SMH 22APR1915


The next two twin girls born 9 Jan 1839 [source ??] Died where ?? Elizabeth Jane and Mary Ellen.

The youngest and third daughter:

Page 140
Presbyterian Baptisms solemnized in the Parish of St. Andrew's Scots Church Sydney in the County of Cumberland in the Year 1853
No When Baptised: 27 Sept. When Born: 30 June 1846 Elizabeth Mary Maria - John Barnes & Elizabeth King Ellen Abode: Surry Hills Quality or Profession: Merchant By whom the Ceremony was performed: Rev. Robert Stewart


1 female living - 2 females deceased as at 30 Aug 1863 - Elizabeth M M died 1924 in NSW so the twins had died but where?
 
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horse

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#12
William John, Thomas Alfred - You've got those...

John Frederick 1837 - 1915 d. Hurstville

Elizabeth Jane and Mary Ellen b/d 1839 such common names, neither seem to be under fore and middle names..
 

DaveHam9

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#13
The baptism record does not list place of birth but George Robert by date of shipping record was born in England and baptised in NSW. He died in NSW in 1920:

Page 140
Presbyterian Baptisms solemnized in the Parish of St. Andrew's Scots Church Sydney in the County of Cumberland in the Year 1853
No When Baptised: 27 Sept. When Born: 31 January 1840 George Robert - John Barnes & Elizabeth King Ellen Abode: Surry Hills Quality or Profession: Merchant By whom the Ceremony was performed: Rev. Robert Stewart


Youngest son born and died in NSW

Page 140
Presbyterian Baptisms solemnized in the Parish of St. Andrew's Scots Church Sydney in the County of Cumberland in the Year 1853
No When Baptised: 27 Sept. When Born: 14 May 1844 Edward Prior - John Barnes & Elizabeth King Ellen Abode: Surry Hills Quality or Profession: Merchant By whom the Ceremony was performed: Rev. Robert Stewart

So that's 6 sons and one died young. That agrees with death certificate.
 
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horse

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#14
London, England, Non-conformist Registers, 1694-1921
Mary Ellen Barnes
Birth Year: abt 1839
Event Type: Burial
Event Date: 28 Mar 1839
Age: 2/12
Church: Wycliffe Congregational Church
Burough: Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

London, England, Non-conformist Registers, 1694-1921
Elizabeth Jane Barnes
Birth Year: abt 1839
Event Type: Burial
Event Date: 13 Apr 1839
Age: 3/12
Church: Wycliffe Congregational Church
Burough: Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

Geoff
 

DaveHam9

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#15
London, England, Non-conformist Registers, 1694-1921
Mary Ellen Barnes
Birth Year: abt 1839
Event Type: Burial
Event Date: 28 Mar 1839
Age: 2/12
Church: Wycliffe Congregational Church
Burough: Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

London, England, Non-conformist Registers, 1694-1921
Elizabeth Jane Barnes
Birth Year: abt 1839
Event Type: Burial
Event Date: 13 Apr 1839
Age: 3/12
Church: Wycliffe Congregational Church
Burough: Tower Hamlets
County: Middlesex

Geoff
Thanks Geoff.

That's great. At last that bit is solved.

So it appears as though 4 sons arrived with parents, William J, Thomas A, John F and George R.

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#16
I can't see a birth reg in Mar Qtr 1840 for George - born 21 Jan 1840.

Or for the twins in 1839.
 

horse

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#17
No I cant, Q2 & Q4 looks most likely, Q4 would have to be October though, they left in November!

Also looking at dates of births of twins, it would be very close for Jan birth!
 

horse

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#19
Quite possible, even though it was a legal requirement, it wasn't really seriously enforced until the 1870's as I recall.
 

DaveHam9

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#20
I wonder if we can find any more than this:

Barque 'Abbotsford'
Master: Hicks
Origin: London 1840 Nov 26
Destination: Sydney 1841 Apr 5
Cargo merchandise
Barnes Mr and family


The newspapers have "Mr and Mrs Barnes and family"


Also re post #1 we can rule out Mary Ellen being the sister. I'm not sure it's a daughter-in-law either.
 
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