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William SMITH

horse

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#41
This could be quite easily her and probably others...

Isabella Brown
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 25 Nov 1792
Christening Place: Tynemouth, Northumberland, England
Father: Edward Brown
Mother: Barbara
 

gibbo

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#44

DaveHam9

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#45
We might have to wait until I can get to the State Library and view the other set of films for the 1808 marriage to John JONES. That record might have more details.

Here is an example from that reel with name of vessel:

No 166
Nicholas Cavillion Aged 28 Blorenbury [Boxbournebury] otp Parramatta
Milbah Harrax Aged 19
Married in this Church by Banns with the consent of father
10 Mar 1829 By me Saml. Marsden
Both signed
Witnesses: ? & ? of Parramatta

But again it might not have spinster or widow on it.
 
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DaveHam9

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#46
Dont know if this is of any help or not, i havent read all through the thread properly yet :rolleyes:

Your post #2

Title: William Smith, one of 200 convicts transported on the Indian, July 1810.
Details: Sentence details: Convicted at London Gaol Delivery for a term of life on 28 June 1809.

Maybe him on the below link :confused: Does the age help any :confused:
GUILTY , aged 29.
Transported for Life

http://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t18090626-42-defend494&div=t18090626-42#highlight
It's the other William on that vessel, gibbo. :)
 

DaveHam9

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#49
V1811170 5/1811 JONES JOHN AGE 32

1811 Febry. 6 170 John Jones - Aged 32 years Ex Ship Coromandel 1803


V1811277 5/1811 JONES JOHN AGE 52

1811 Novbr. 25 277 John Jones, aged 52 yrs from London, Ex Ship Rl. Admiral - Tried at the Old Bailey - Sentense for Life - Prisoner at Death


There are other burials for a John JONES 1808-1812 still to look up.

The tree has no details re the John who married Isabella HOPE/BROWN in 1808. The image does not help:

V1808835 3A/1808 JONES JOHN - BROWN ISABELLA CB

1808 February 22 John Jones Isabella Brown St. Johns Parramatta St.J ParramattaB
 

EMMO

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#51
I found this on ancestry, It fairly closely concurrs with my family story about her.
I had heard this story many times before I started any family history research. I don't think the truth will ever be known.
• On the 10/11/1807 Isabella landed in Australia. Although she was a free settler she arrived on a convict ship "The Duke of Portland". According to her death certificaate, Isabella who was born at Newcastle upon Tyne, in 1790 and was only 17 when she landed in the penal colony of NSW. At that time the colony had only been established 19 years and was still a battling community . Isabella was in the colony only 3 months when she married John Jones on 22/2/1808 at St Johns Church of Enlgnad Parramatta Isabella, John and two witnesses John Gilbert and Ann Trenary all signed with crosses. The minister was Anthony John Kemp. Isabella and John had a child Jane Jones who was born on 20/11/1810 and baptised on the 16/12/1810 at St Phillips Church of England. John Jones died/disappeared. The next record of Isabella was when she married William Smith at St John's Church of England Parramatta on 7/9/1812. The witnesses were William and Ann Bellamy. They all signed with a cross except William Smith. As the years went by the Smith and Bellamy families became well known residents in the colony and remainded lifelong friends, with William & Isabella's second son James marrying Sussanah Bellamy. The ancestry of Isabella is a mystery. The story told by descendants came from her daughter Emily and is as follows:
Isabella was Isabella Hope,daughter of Lord and Lady Hope. She ran away from home with a servant. In the telling over the years, the true story has probably changed. On her death certificate it stated Parents unknown. On two of her son's birth certificates it states their mother's maiden name was Isabella Hope. Descendants say that Isabella spoke of her mother. If asked about her life in England she would become very upset and burst into tears. Yet the mystery remains. Why did Isabella just 17 years of age journey as a free immigrant to the colony of NSW
She is buried in the Wesleyan Cemetary at Parramatta.


My own take on the whole thing was that she probably was one of those poor people who were good at imitating rich people, and made the whole "Hope" story up.
 

EMMO

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#53
I suppose the alternative is, that her name really was Isabelle Hope, she changed it when she ran away from home, and it was the later family who tried to link it to the Lord and Lady Hope people from Newcastle (whose surname was apparently Pelham-Clinton). One thing for sure is that there is no paper trail, so we will likely never know.
 

DaveHam9

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#54
I had one moderator on another site say it was impossible for all the names I'm researching in NSW pre 1840 to be in my tree and that I must be researching for others. :biggrin:

Dave
 

EMMO

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#55
I think you have the right William Smith, who came on the Indian, having been sentenced to Life as a highwayman. Not life to continue being a highwayman, but you probably didn't think thats what i meant.
 
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EMMO

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#56
at 4 generations you are researching 32 people ..some of my family is 5gen in Australia. If I were researching a partners family as well, you would double that. Thats not counting if you get sidetracked by less direct relations.You could be actively researching 100 or so names i guess, before getting to English forebears


If you were a generation younger than me of course you would at least double that ....
 
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DaveHam9

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#57
I've read this topic again and I hope it's right as I have another William Smith, convict

1831 July 1 William Smith Elizabeth Richie Banns Sutton Forest

Oh, I go sideways and then up and down. I go further if I find a connection.


Connected in two places to my tree. One connection here to Sands - a direct line.

Marriage 277/1933 LOUGHLIN EDWARD A - POWELL ALMA E S - SYDNEY

E= Elizabeth S= Sands

Lottie Finnie Smith.

By coincidence I'm working on 'L' in my tree now and started looking at Loughlin two days ago.

Yes, I'm 5th too.


Two sons connect to my tree - Robert and Reuben.
 
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EMMO

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#59
ohhh and on Richards, the Minister will pull out the original record this week and see if his age is clearly 27, or could be 31 or 37. That means the original register is still at the church... I do hope they are taking special care to preserve it. And ...i am going to Bathurst on wednesday or thursday. perhaps i could persuade him to take some sort of photo of that record....
 

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