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William THORNLEY married Betsy about 1880

DaveHam9

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William THORNLEY b. 1854 Leigh, Lancashire d. ? Aust.

Births Dec 1854
Thornley William Leigh 8c 134

Emigrated on vessel 'Earl Dalhousie' arrived Sydney 7 May 1877 aged 22 Origin Location: Leigh, Lancashire

Married 'Betsy' about 1880 but I can't find it anywhere in Aust.

Her death in NSW:

Death Reg# 16302/1938 THORNLEY BETSY SIMEON ANN MARRICKVILLE

Now, with a not so common name of Simeon for her father I thought it would be easy but by an error in her death reg or by coincidence I have a Simeon possibly in both families.
It looks as though Betsy also came from Leigh??

Marriages Jun 1850
Thornley Simeon Leigh 21 471

Marriages Dec 1849
Thornley Richard Leigh 21 473
Thornley Thomas Leigh 21 469

Marriages Sep 1855
Thornley William Leigh 8c 206
BAXENDALE Eliza Leigh 8c 206
Taylor Elizabeth Leigh 8c 206

I ruled out the following based on the age on the shipping record. An assumption on my part for now.

Births Mar 1850
Thornley William Leigh 21 559

Births Jun 1857
Thornley William Leigh 8c 170
=============
Marriages Dec 1847
DYSON Simeon Leigh 21 354
BUCKLEY Ann Leigh 21 354
HILTON Ann Leigh 21 354

Marriages Jun 1858
Briggs Simeon Leigh 8c 204
Guest Richard Leigh 8c 204
Schofield Ann Leigh 8c 204

I need to match the couples in all the marriages somehow.

Possibly I should look at this via a census post too?

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#2
Hello juliejtp,

I'm going to create two census look ups to try and solve this one.

Regards,

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#3
Hello juliejtp,

Through the census look ups I have matched the couples in the marriages so now we have a Simeon and Ann DYSON and a Simeon and Ann BRIGGS and these possible children - not counting ones in the index as Elizabeth:

Births Mar 1859
BRIGGS female Leigh 8c 167

Births Sep 1858
Briggs Betsy Rochdale 8E 45

Births Dec 1859
BRIGGS Betsey Bury 8c 589

Births Jun 1858
Dyson Betsey Oldham 8d 568

Births Mar 1862
DYSON Betsy Rochdale 8e __

The exercise has found too many to purchase and there is no way to tell if we are on the right track.

This looks like remaining a brick wall.

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#4
Hello crankypants,

The brick wall did get knocked down. It was Betsy BALL.

Marriages Dec 1876
Thornley William Bolton 8c 383
BALL Betsey Bolton 8c 383

William's parents are:

Marriages Dec 1849
Thornley Thomas Leigh 21 469
Lythgoe Ann Leigh 21 469

1871 U.K census
Civil Parish: Bedford
Town: Leigh
County: Lancashire
Registration District: Leigh
Address: 8 Derby Street
THORNLEY Thomas, head 1828 age 43 Silk Overlooker Bedford, Lancashire
THORNLEY, Ann, wife 1831 age 30 Bedford, Lancashire [38?]
THORNLEY Mary, daur 1852 age 19 Silk Winder Bedford, Lancashire
THORNLEY William, son 1855 age 16 Silk Overlooker Bedford, Lancashire

1881 U.K census
Civil Parish: Wigan
County: Lancashire
Registration District: Wigan
Address: 46 School st.
THORNLEY Thomas, head 1828 age 53 Joiner Bedford Leigh, Lancashire
THORNLEY Mary, wife 1844 age 37 Draper Bolton, Lancashire
THORNLEY Minnie Alice, daur 1880 age 1 Wigan, Lancashire
So Ann died between those years and Thomas (no known middle name) married a Mary and they had a daughter in Wigan.

For some reason I have this one as the marriage:

Marriages Sep 1879
Aspinall Mary Leigh 8c 244
THORNLEY Thomas John Leigh 8c 244


Just because Thomas was from Leigh ??? He has no middle name in any of the other records. I checked all marriages in Lancashire between 1871 and 1881 and there are 8 for a Thomas THORNLEY (with and without middle names) to a Mary (with and without middle names). :eek:

The above one is a possibility but so is this one:

Marriages Mar 1875
BARTON Susannah Wigan 8c 119
Gerrard William Wigan 8c 119
Smith Mary Wigan 8c 119
Thornley Thomas Wigan 8c 119

What do you suggest? Overdose on Tim Tams >:D

The Wigan one suits the birth of the daughter but it's some time after the marriage. The Leigh one fits the birth of a daughter soon after the marriage but the locations don't match. If I had to guess, it might be Mary SMITH.

Regards,

Dave

PS I have Mary in 1901 Census Board for look up request.
 
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DaveHam9

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#6
Hello crankypants,

Thank you. How do we prove it's Mary SMITH? The location Wigan fits better and they may have had another child who died before the census. And Thomas with no middle name also fits better.

I've gone through all the 1881 census listings in Lancashire for Thomas and Mary in same household and only found the one with Thomas born in Bedford, Leigh. I noticed two GERRARD families with William and spouse Susannah.

Regards,

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#7
Hello crankypants,

The 1901 census was fixed by the same address as in 1891:

Address: 30 Winter Hey Lane

This death would fit a birth around 1844:

Deaths Dec 1914
Thornley Mary 69 Bolton 8c 452


Regards,

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#8
Hello crankypants,

We need a marriage for a George Henry THORNLEY born abt 1884 Wigan.

Regards,

Dave
 

crankypants

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#9
Hi Dave

Tracked one of Mary's neighbours in 1901 and fortunately they are still living at 28 Winter Hey Lane in 1911.

TAYLOR Frank Hewitt
TAYLOR Elizabeth Ann
RIGBY Margaret Ellinor
Address: 30 Winter Hey Lane

Do you know them.

cheers
crankypants
 

DaveHam9

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Hello crankypants,

Thanks. No, at the moment I don't know of any connection to TAYLORs.


Marriages Dec 1906
SCOTT Esther Eliza Bolton 8c 787
Thornley George Henry Bolton 8c 787

Births Sep 1908
Thornley Harry Scott Bolton 8c 450

Births Mar 1883
Scott Esther Eliza Chorlton 8c 782


Looks like a different family has moved into that address. Elizabeth is not a THORNLEY.

Marriages Mar 1910
Rigby Elizabeth Ann Bolton 8c 622
TAYLOR Frank Hewitt Bolton 8c 622


Regards,

Dave
 

DaveHam9

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#12
Hello crankypants,

Well, I'll have to eat my compression stockings redf)

Of course there is a connection to SMITH and RIGBY - niece - niece:

1901 U.K census
Civil Parish: Horwich
County: Lancashire
Registration District: Bolton
Address: 30 Winter Hey Lane
THORNLEY Mary, head wid 1844 age 57 Milliner & Draper (own account-at home) Bolton, Lancashire
RIGBY Elizabeth Ann, niece 1881 age 20 Milliner, (worker-at home) Wigan, Lancashire
SMITH Nellie May, niece 1893 age 8 Golbourne, Lancashire

Now to find those responsible >:D They could both be on the SMITH side of the family.

Births Mar 1881
RIGBY Elizabeth Ann Wigan 8c 40

Births Jun 1892
Smith Nellie May Leigh 8c 288

Golbourne is in Leigh RD.


Regards,

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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#13
Hello crankypants,

I asked how do we prove it is SMITH - well I think we have now.

Marriages Mar 1875
BARTON Susannah Wigan 8c 119
Gerrard William Wigan 8c 119
------
Smith Mary Wigan 8c 119
Thornley Thomas Wigan 8c 119


A sister of Mary SMITH married a RIGBY.


Births Jun 1884
Rigby Margaret Eleanor Wigan 8c 73

Regards,

Dave
 
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DaveHam9

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#14
Hello crankypants,

I'm not chasing SMITH/RIGBY/TAYLOR much more. I'll continue with THORNLEY and RUNCIMAN - by marriage.

I have some conflicting data from the shipping records re the place of birth of some of the RUNCIMANs. Some arrived on one vessel and some a year later on another and some arrived but can't be found in shipping records. That's the next puzzle :)

Regards,

Dave
 

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