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Williams & Ryder/Rider family in Birmingham


Well-known member
I need help please searching for my 2nd and 3rd gt. grandmothers. I’m hoping that a fresh pair of eyes on this Williams family will make it clearer.

Apologies if I’m going into too much detail or if I have posted this in the wrong forum.

Elizabeth Williams was born on 4th April 1822 in Birmingham, Warwickshire. Her parents were Richard Williams b. abt. 1781 and Ann Ryder/Rider b. abt. 1786.

I’ve managed to find some of Richard and Ann’s children Maria b. 1804, James b. 1806, Ann b. 1811, Hannah b. 1817, Caroline b. 1819 and Elizabeth b. 1822. There are a number of long periods of time between the births and I’m taking it that there could possibly be more children.

I think but can’t be sure that Ann Ryder/Rider was born in Birmingham around 1780/81 her parents were John Ryder/Rider and Mary born abt. 1773.

Maria Williams possible marriage to John Ford in Birmingham in 1824.

I believe Ann Williams married William Sabell in Coventry in 1828. I do have their information from census records and I have found my 2nd gt. grandmother Elizabeth living with the family in Birmingham in 1841.

Elizabeth Williams married Joseph Ballard in Birmingham in 1843 (my 2nd gt. grandparents). I have their information also from census records.

I haven’t found marriages for James, Caroline or Hannah Williams.

The difficulty I have is understanding what I’ve found in the 1841 Census. It shows Maria Ford aged 38 (b. abt. 1803) with a Mary Williams aged 68 (b. abt. 1773) and John Ford aged 19 (b. abt. 1822) and also a Henry Hatton. The address is Aston, Birmingham. The age for Maria is about right for her to be Maria Williams and the age is right for Mary Williams to be the grandmother.

However, the ages for grandmother Mary and daughter Ann Ryder/Rider don’t add up. Can anyone see what I’m missing here?

Thank you,


Loyal Member
If Ann Ryder's parents were John and Mary born c1773 then Ann born c1780 cannot be their daughter as Mary would only be about 7 when Ann was born. I've heard of starting young but surely not that young!


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